Precision Rifle Competition in Russia (pics)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Interesting. Very interesting. Anybody know what Russian firearms laws are like?
According to Russia's gun laws, Russian citizens can buy smoothbore shotguns, such as, for example Saiga 12, gas pistols, or revolvers shooting rubber bullets. Safe use of one of the above weapons for five years allows purchase of a rifle or carbine.[70]
In Moscow alone, some 400,000 people legally keep 470,000 weapons.[70]

They also have AWB like laws in some areas I believe.
 
Call me ignorant, but none of them are wearing eye protection. Is it typical to not wear safety glasses in precision rifle competitions?
 
it depends on the match. i'd guess 70% of competitors do not wear eye pro in precision rifle matches. changes depending on paper vs steel targets, and what else is going on.

i keep two sets in my pack and wear it on some stages or in some conditions (high wind, extreme sun, etc)

do a google image search of camp perry national matches and you'll occasionally see some blinders and wild prescription stuff, but most eyes are naked
 
You know, I really like the looks of the SVD there. It's different... and it's the first bolt action sniper's rifle fielded since the Mosin M91/30 sniper gave way to the semi-auto Dragunov, if I remember correctly.

Wonder what it would be like to shoot one. It's 7.62x54r, and 7n14 (modified 7n1) is used.

Josh
 
It is unlikely that eye protection is enforced in Russia similar to the US, because the civil liability is generally lower. Personal safety standards are culturally different also.
 
Is civil liability really lower?

Everyone in Russia has dash cameras, which is why we get so much wacky footage from that area of the world. Vice did an interesting article on the issue. Sounds like scammers abound and lots of frivolous lawsuits too, which has created a society where people voluntarily use surveillance to document their daily activities: http://www.vice.com/read/the-insane-world-of-russian-dash-cam-videos

Actually, sounds a lot like the US.
 
Yes, it is lower. The US has world's highest civil litigation awards.
The pursuit of gadgetry among the younger Russians has little to do with legal protection. Every society has its status symbols. Doing crazy stuff for the bragging rights is nothing new, but for the embedded DVR? Priceless.
 
You know, I really like the looks of the SVD there. It's different... and it's the first bolt action sniper's rifle fielded since the Mosin M91/30 sniper gave way to the semi-auto Dragunov, if I remember correctly.
SVD stands for Snaiperskaya Vintovka Dragunova, or Dragunov's sniper rifle... The semi-auto one.

Wonder what it would be like to shoot one. It's 7.62x54r, and 7n14 (modified 7n1) is used.
If you are asking about the SVD, it's like shooting an accurized and scaled up AK - long, gritty and heavy trigger and about 1,5 - 2 MOA groups.

IMHO, the guy with the commercial SVD "knock off" - Tigr, doesn't have a clue what he is doing there.

Best,
Boris
 
Last edited:
Boris-

Why do you think the guy is clueless?
Why is the TIGR a knockoff - is it not made by the same companies as the military SVD?
 
Why do you think the guy is clueless?
Why is the TIGR a knockoff - is it not made by the same companies as the military SVD?
Even if it was top notch it would still be noncompetitive. The SVD is a designated marksman's rifle. 2-1 MOA at best, it cannot compete with Accuracy International, Desert Tacs, etc. especially not when those rifles are wearing top of the line, high power scopes as they are in this match. Therefore, he has placed himself at an insurmountable disadvantage - it is as if he showed up to a stock car race with a tractor.
 
Last edited:
CmdrSlander - my thoughts exactly. YZ, don't get me wrong - I like the SVD for what it is, but I don't like the hype surrounding it. If you shoot an SVD and compare it to some dirt cheap plastic Remington 700 for example in terms of accuracy, weight, balance or reliability the later wins hands down except for the semi-auto capability...
About the TIGR - it really is just a knock-off - it's crude, has an even worse accuracy, but bears a ridiculously high price tag. It's like comparing an imperial Mossin-Nagant VS the war time Mossins - basically the same rifle, but compared they are like night and day.

Boris
 
OK. I think you both go too far. You convicted a man you never met, of aggravated cluelessness, because he is competing with merely a "marksman's rifle". Seriously. What is so clueless in trying your best rifle, see if you can hold your own?

Boris - Mosin has been a hot topic lately. I am interested, what was different when you shot an Imperial Russian Mosin in comparison with a Soviet one?
 
Looks like those guys will be ready if/when the Russian paratroopers start dropping out of the sky to invade. "Wolverines!!!"

Oh.... wait.... ;)
 
On a marginally more serious note... I am really amazed at the high end, very pricey Western rifles and scopes. Looks like many of those setups are worth US$4000 and up, with some probably over $10k (noticing the DTA rifle and the Barrett BORS scope). Actually surprised that some of the US-made stuff is even there given ITAR and our export laws.
 
On a marginally more serious note... I am really amazed at the high end, very pricey Western rifles and scopes. Looks like many of those setups are worth US$4000 and up, with some probably over $10k (noticing the DTA rifle and the Barrett BORS scope). Actually surprised that some of the US-made stuff is even there given ITAR and our export laws.
The Russian bear cavalry laughs at your puny ITAR! Laughs and spits upon it!

russian-bears-on-the-attack1.jpg


............but seriously if they can afford that gear than can probably afford getting into Russia, legally or otherwise.
 
If you are asking about the SVD, it's like shooting an accurized and scaled up AK - long, gritty and heavy trigger and about 1,5 - 2 MOA groups.

IMHO, the guy with the commercial SVD "knock off" - Tigr, doesn't have a clue what he is doing there.

I was reading on a Russian forum and they were having a debate about SVD accuracy.

One member was claiming the SVD would shoot 3.1 cm R100 (1.12 MOA) and someone else was saying that the official factory was flat-out lying about the accuracy and that officials at some test said it would typically do 1.8 MOA, then someone else said that was untrue since they don't use MOA officially, then another person came in with completely different figures of 8cm R100 (2.9 MOA) or more... :rolleyes:

Here were some of the 100m "figures" which were in dispute.

qaMW1d6.jpg
8ifxTc6.jpg




Either way, still pretty poor by Western standards but then again I suppose the Russians have a different doctrine for their snipers, probably why they only issue it with a 4x scope...
 
Even at 1.8 MOA it will find its mark most of the time with a practiced shooter.
 
It is unlikely that eye protection is enforced in Russia similar to the US, because the civil liability is generally lower. Personal safety standards are culturally different also.

I don't think eye protection is really all that common anywhere but in the US.

Here in Germany, people very rarely wear eye protection on the average shooting range. It's only common at IPSC matches.

I have never used any eye protection in the German military either (active duty 2002/2003, reservist ever since). Neither have the Polish, French, Norwegian etc. soldiers I 've trained with and competed against in military competitions.
Of course, infantry units in combat situations use them, and I am sure many also use them for training nowadays.


OK. I think you both go too far. You convicted a man you never met, of aggravated cluelessness, because he is competing with merely a "marksman's rifle". Seriously. What is so clueless in trying your best rifle, see if you can hold your own?

Dito - isn't it all about having fun?


I was reading on a Russian forum and they were having a debate about SVD accuracy.

One member was claiming the SVD would shoot 3.1 cm R100 (1.12 MOA) and someone else was saying that the official factory was flat-out lying about the accuracy and that officials at some test said it would typically do 1.8 MOA, then someone else said that was untrue since they don't use MOA officially, then another person came in with completely different figures of 8cm R100 (2.9 MOA) or more... :rolleyes:

When I bought my Tigr (in .308) a few weeks ago, I had no idea what to expect accuracy-wise.
I checked several forums, and there were those who claimed 1 - 1.5 MOA accuracy, there were those who said it had "reasonable battle rifle accuracy" (these were the majority), and there were those who said it can't hit the broad side of a barn.

I've now had about 150 rounds through mine, and while I'm generally satisfied with its accuracy, I'm not sure what to make of the results.

Last time I shot it at 100m (109 yards) with a POSP 8x42 scope, my first 5 shots with S&B 147grain ammo formed a 1.5" group (4 of them formed a 0.7" group). Second group was almost as good, then I changed position and suddenly got 3-4" groups.

It might have to do with the barrel getting hot, the way I grip the rifle or the fact that I find it difficult to maintain a consistent eye position relative to the scope because the big cheek pad gets in my way. I think that the latter is the case, since my groups with iron sights have been rather consistent (around 2 MOA).

Judging from my best groups with the scope, I believe that my rifle might theoretically be capable of 1 MOA groups.
From what I read on the Internet, I get the impression that accuracy varies greatly between individual rifles, though.
 
I said "In My Humble Opinion" and let me clarify that - 1 MOA group will get you at the bottom of the scoring at benchrest and benchrest-like competitions. The guy with the SVD will never become one of the top five (or ten) shooters for the simple reason, that his rifle is just not accurate enough. If the same guy has a better score than somebody with a better rifle it doesn't show how good he is, but it only shows that the other guy is a bad shooter.

Boris
 
That is NOT an SVD. It's an SV-98, a bolt-action sniper rifle. While I haven't heard anything about how accurate they are, I'm sure they're very good.

Keep in mind that the Dragunov Tigr is not representative of the actual military SVD. It is deliberately crippled with a simplified gas system and shorter, lower-grade barrel to make it a step below an actual military rifle. The parts are also not hand-fitted and thus lack the same tolerances. It's a "monkey model". Real, new-production SVDs are probably 1 MOA or better, given the quality of current civilian rifles we have coming in like VEPRs, which average right around 1 MOA with good ammo in the .308 and 7.62x54R models. Don't underestimate Russian small arms production. It's way better than you think.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top