Premium Ammo vs 9mm/.40

[Zip06]

Given the technology in bullet design, is there any practical difference in target shooting, tactical shooting or on street performance when shooting 9mm or .40 cal premium ammo such as Winchester SXT, Gold Dot or Hydra-Shok in, for instance, the Glock 19/23?

 

[Alan Fud]

Is there a difference? Yes ...

... the best .45ACP loads and the best .40 loads were pretty close. "heavy" 9mm's were noticably behind. "light" 9mm's were last ... the best 9mm rounds tested, according to wound volume in both cases, are the: CCI/Speer Gold Dot 124 +P, and the 147gr Black Talon ...

 

[Sean Smith]

Of course, those conclusions are based on very old FBI test data.

 

[Werewolf]

My experience in target shooting is using a two handed grip and standing that with a 9mm I can blow a 2" ragged hole in a target from 15yds and do it pretty quick. With .40 S&W I can't do that.

At 25yds slow fire from a standing position I'm more accurate with the 9mm than the .40 (9mm groups are about 1/2 the size of the .40).

So for target shooting there's a difference. I'm way better with the 9mm.

For tactical I feel safer with the .40 (bigger more powerful bullet) and that's what I carry (Glock 22). I point shoot the sucker (I practice that a lot) and from 7yd or less I just point and can put 3 rds into COM (2 to 4" spacing) in about 2 seconds (faster if I think about it and force the issue but then that 2 to 4" grows to 4 to 8"). For close in that's good enough. At 15 yards and point shooting I average 1 hit out of 2 shots on a man sized silhouette with the .40 so 15 yards is about the best I can do with point shoot technique.

I've found that in general at the ranges I shoot at (<25yds) the type of ammo really makes no difference in the two calibers you've asked about. Accuracy is impacted by caliber though as I'm more accurate with the 9 than the 40.

 

[Brigrat]

any differences are neglibable, see for yourself:

http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000581.html

 

[Zip06]

Brigrat - That is an excellent reference. Thanks.

 

[cratz2]

Well, I don't have any bias against a given cartridge but I've always been a 1911/45ACP kinda guy. For target shooting, I've fired many 1.5" to 2" groups at 25 yards from a couple of my 1911s including one completely bone stock Springfield Stainless Target model but keep in mind, I've shot this combo a LOT. With 9mms, I've shot a few groups around 3", maybe a bit smaller from various 9mms. With my Glock 23 and a 3.5# connector, I don't think I've ever shot a group smaller than about 4" or maybe a bit larger. I had an EAA Witness Silver Team (single actio nCZ75 type pistol) that I used a lot at 100 yards and fired several 8" groups with it but most were in the 10" range and that was using American Eagle ammo. This should translate back to 2" to 2.5" at 25 yards. In my experience, 9mms and 45ACPs are more accurate than 40S&Ws but in my experience, the gun, trigger and ammo has a lot more to do with it than just the cartridge.

For wounding or stopping ability, if we're limited to FMJ choices, I would feel better armed with a 45ACP shooting 230 Gr ball ammo than I would with a 9mm of some sort shooting 124/127 Gr ball ammo. Assuming that we're talking about modern expanding HPs and shooting them from guns that are very reliable with said ammo, I'd feel well armed with 115-127 Gr 9mm loads, 155-165 Gr 40S&W Loads and 200-230 Gr 45ACP loads. I like CorBons, Rangers and Gold Dots for 9mm, and Gold Dots, Golden Sabers and Rangers for 45ACP. Don't have a strong enough opinion of defensive 40S&W ammo to make a solid statement though I'd probably stay with Gold Dots and Rangers. I have relatively limited experience with the 10mm and the 357 Sig though if it was reliable and shooting any ammo of known reliablity, I'd feel very confident with either of them.

Just my opinion, but no one will convince me that a service sized pistol (4" barrel or larger) shooting any of the ammo combinations listed in the previous paragraph won't do a very decent job of slowing down any single bad guy in relatively short order. The most important thing to me in a SD pistol is that you have completely confidence in it. It should be at least 99.9% reliable and you should be able to clear a malfunction without thinking about it. You should be able to draw and put two rounds into any target within 10 yards in under three seconds and as a citizen (not LEO) you should think agressively... Two shots, everytime and move in closer... if the bad guy is still moving or talking, he gets two more shots faster than you can consciously access the situation.

That is more important than 'what cartridge' in my book.

 

[goon]

I am sure that there will be flaming for this, but for my purposes they are the same.
If you have to defend yourself you are going to use as many rounds as it takes to make the threat go away.
If he is on the ground with no gun as soon as he sees my muzzle that is great. If I have to put two mags into him, so be it.
At any rate, you are not going to stop after one round of .45 ACP and tell the guy who is still standing in front of you that he should fall down now because you used a .45 and not a .38.
So it really doesn't matter. Three rounds of good 9mm JHP is going to make a real mess just like three rounds of .40 JHP would.
So, IMO, yes.
A 9mm is as good as a .40 with good ammo.
Yes, a .45 is probably better if you have to use FMJ, but no one has to use only FMJ.

 

[berto]

I believe with the best loads,they are effectively about equal-as others have said,it comes down to what you are able to be most competent with.

For self protection,I feel equally well armed with my Smith model 15 loaded with hot .38's as I am with my CZ97 .45-I know both will do the job if I do mine.

 

[orangeninja]

I prefer .40.

Its pretty much accepted that the round is better and more consistant than a 9mm. But not by a lot. Both are better than 9 out of 10 one shot stoppers, but nothing matches the holy grail of LEO rounds, the .357 magnum. But I can't shoot it well....so I don't carry it. So go with whats right for you. Some interesting facts about this debate also reside in the law enforcement community.

For instance, the FBI issues predominantly a .40 Glock to almost all agents. Those agents in the HRT or tactical teams are often also issued either a 9mm Sig (I believe a 226 ) or a 1911 Springfield .45. Though the 9mm is much more prolifant than the 1911.

The Air Marshalls use a .357 Sig in a 229. I like the gun, don't understand why they went with that round though.

Border Patrol and INS use the .40 Beretta 96 almost exclusively.

DPS Texas uses a .357 Sig in Sig 226.

The Dallas Police Dept. either uses a 9mm or .357 Sig .... the .40 is not allowed for some mysterious reason.

The ATF....a .40 Smith

the Fort Worth Police .40 Beretta.

So all of the above mentioned rounds are pretty much found everywhere depending upon the mission of the Department and whatever they consider "best". Whether that be "best" in terms of getting sued or "best" in terms of stopping power. I personally am issued a Sig 229 in .40 and I love it and am very comfortable with it.

A local police dept. I believe the Hurst Police Dept. still issues a "COLT" 1911 and even goes as far as to require a "COLT" 1911 for off duty carry. Now THAT is specific. These guys have to carry a 1911 .45 even as a backup. Weird. I think anything you go with is pretty good if its either a 9mm, .40, .357 Sig, .357 Mag. or .45....notice I did not say .38 Spec. or .380.