Cousin Mike said:
How do you know all this? Do you know Tookie personally, or are you quoting a media source, like I was about his nomination for the Nobel prize? If so, why is your source more credible than mine?
DA's report as well as the California Department of Corrections response to the clemency request. If you do a
little research you can find the one from the DA as well. The one from the Corrections department was online, but was pulled offline when a State Senator dissaproved of a state agency going against the clemency requst.
If Tookie was serious about stopping gang violence, you would think he would help the Police with information on how to stop it. You know, telling the Police how the gangs communicate, the tactics they use or to help get other violent gang members off the street by testifying against them. He has refused to do any of that.
Cousin Mike said:
This seems like a less-than genuine point to me. First of all, we know that white kids don't have a serious gang problem in their communities nationwide. There are white kids in gangs, sure - but it's not a massive problem for them like it is throughout the country for black kids. Gangs are a black problem mostly, let's not be PC about it. Asian gangs aren't even worth a mention anymore. Latinos have serious gang problems in some areas of the country though. This was only added to give credentials to your "Tookie was a racist" theory, which I have never heard before, nor the quotes you cited.
Point being, Tookie is not sorry about the Whites, Asians or Hispanics killed by the gang violance of the gang that he created or the gang warfare that was a result of him creating that gang. That was my point. In his interviews, he only mentions being sorry for the Black kids. By stating he is sorry for the Black kids, that is intentionally leaving out the others that have been killed by the gang violence. That sounds like racism to me.
The quotes that I gave you earlier came from the eyewitness to the first murder (the first quote). He is one of the witness's that got Tookie convicted, and he himself was a Crip member as well. The second quote (about the sounds he made) came from Tookie's own brother.
Cousin Mike said:
And why would every single media source imagineable quote that if there was absolutely no truth to it?
Ever work in the media? Ever work for a Newspaper? Guess what. I have. For 8+ years at this point, I have freelanced in the media as a photographer, and have been privy to many newsroom conversations regarding many things. I would highly recommend you not always trusting the media, who many times parrot any information given to them.
The facts are these:
1. I can nominate anyone towards Nobel Peace prize. But my nomination doesn't mean jack squat, but technically, it's a nomination. The fact that it is a non-qualified nomination is beside the point. So a nomination has to come from a qualified source.
2. As policy, the Nobel Peace prize commission won't reveal who has been nominated for a Nobel Prize until 50 years later. That is their policy. So for anyone to claim that he is nominated, well, they don't have the proper information, unless:
3. The person who nominates the "nominee" comes forward. Ofcourse, even in this case, the Nobel Prize commission can neither confirm nor deny that the person was actually nominated, and even if he was nominated, they can't report if he actually met the criteria.
It is possible that he has been nominated, and there are reports that he has, from several places. But there is no confirmation of that, and so it can't be reported as fact, not ethically.
Cousin Mike said:
I wont respond to comments about Yasser Arafat
Too bad, that might get us closer to agreeing on things if we could see where you are coming from with regards to known terrorist
Cousin Mike said:
the fact that anyone could organize a 'truce' between gangs is also a positive thing. And what do you mean, as far as him not solving violence issues for non-gang members? What do you want the guy to do, fix the Israeli/Palestinian issue? Stop the genocide in Sudan? Fix the 3rd world economy, perhaps? Um, news flash! He was a gangbanger. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'm guessing the only thing this guy is an expert on is gangs. The point is, he's doing SOMETHING. I don't care who he talks to in prison, as long as kids read those books and keep their little a$$es out of gangs.
Meaning his only concern was the violence between the two gangs. It never addressed, as far I can see, gang violence towards others who are not in gangs. It doesn't address the violence that the gangs do towards the other people in their community.
It was essentially a cease-fire saying, don't shoot the other combatants, but don't worry about the innocent civilians, they are still open game.
And the fact that he could organize such a truce shows that he still has close ties to the gangs and is still respected.
Cousin Mike said:
It's very clear you don't like this guy, I'm sure none of us do. I never defended Tookie or questioned his guilt, I believe the man is guilty as hell. Do you want my honest opinion (since you never bothered to ask)? I think even if he was framed and none of it is true (which is a longshot), the gang he started has done enough damage that I think he should fry. If he did do it, that's just more to fry him for, but I will say this. The man has maintained his innocence, and people DO get wrongly convicted. Especially guys that look like Tookie, since you want to use race as an anchor for your arguement. The fact of the matter is, you or me, the media or the jury, none of us know weather he did it or not. We have our opinions, but only he and God know what really happened, end of story. You can dispute that all you want, but unless you were there, you have no idea what happened. What he did admit to - which is starting the Crip gang, that alone is worth frying him for. Don't address me like a Tookie supporter, I'm far from it.
I can agree with you on this. Atleast on most of it.
The witnesses who helped get Tookie convicted were his fellow crips, as well as his own brother.
Tookie ofcourse is relying on people not actually researching the material from his trial: He claimed that the police found "not a shred of tangible evidence, no fingerprints, no crime scenes of bloody boot prints. They didn't match my boots, nor eyewitnesses.
Even the shotgun shells found conveniently at each crime scene didn't match the shotgun shells that I owned."
Ooops. Actually, they were matched to Tookie's shotgun. There were no exclusionary markings. They matched perfectly.
Tookie, or atleast his supporters, also claim that his jury was all-white. It wasn't. There was one Hispanic, and one Asian, and surpise surprise, there was also an African American.
With regards to possible innocence, he has gone through 24 years worth of appeals to various courts in the State of California. None of those courts have found any question of his quilt, even though one court recommended giving him clemency. Even that court found no issues with his guilt. I think that says something right there.
And I never said I suspected you of being a Tookie supporter. Your first post didn't really indicate that. But you asked questions, and I answered them. You also made a claim that he has severed his gang ties. I posted something that disputed that. The California Department of Corrections happens to agree with me on that point.
Cousin Mike said:
My only question was shouldn't his anti-gang message to children be something to consider when thinking of sparing his life?
NO!
Cousin Mike said:
I never even stated a personal view of the case. The only opinion I gave is that there is no reason for anyone to riot over this guy. Don't know why this is such a hot botton for ya', but I guess you just get flamed around here as a matter of policy for going against the grain and presenting a different view.
Never flamed you. The only thing I gave an actual disagreement over was whether or not he has severed his gang ties.
Regarding everything else, you asked questions, and I posted answers, never once posting anything derogatory towards you. My post was intended to be educational, and I take pride in being very thorough and accurate.
Cousin Mike said:
If it lets you sleep a little easier at night, I've never heard anyone even talk about this crap except here. Black folks ain't thinkin about Tookie. Sleep easy. If you really think the whole country is going to turn into a Katrina type scenario over this guy, you have some seriously preconcieved notions of certain people, and nothing I can say is going to change that.
I am not worried about it personally. Won't affect me one way or another. But some people seem to be worried, including the Los Angeles City Council. Four of them have come out urging calm if Tookie is executed.
Cousin Mike said:
Not much to say on Manson, we agree about it.
Doesn't suprise me, I doubt there are a dozen people on this Earth that would support that POS!
Cousin Mike said:
Based on the link below, the names of 3 of the 4 people Tookie killed were Tsai Shai Yang, Yen I Yang, and Yee Chen Lin. Going out on another limb here, but something tells me these people were not white. So much for that "Tookie was a racist" crap.
Yup, they were Asian. But as I said before, Tookie made the comment that he killed the first guy because he was white, and he wanted to kill white people. The fact that the other 3 people were Asian doesn't mean squat, except that they are also dead.
Ofcourse, when taken in context of Tookies appology to the "young Black kids" who have died, once again he left out 3 Asian people that he murdered as well.
Guess he isn't sorry for them because they weren't Black.
I would call that racism.
I.G.B.
That is because in 1972, the California Supreme Court ruled that the death penalty was cruel and unusual in the way that it was carried out. 
