Presbyterian Church - Not on Our Side

[TenDriver]

http://www.pcusa.org/news/2014/6/19/assembly-acts-decisively-gun-violence-abortion-tax/

A girl I went to high school with had this on her Facebook page. I know nothing of the Presbyterian faith, other than what I've read here, but it appears to me they are decidedly anti-gun. Keypoints: supporting an AWB, ban on the .50BMG, anti-stand your ground laws (they want you to try to de-escalate situations, including where life in being threatened as well as rely on law enforcement), and encouraging church functions / grounds to be gun free zones.

 

[dusty14u]

The PCUSA has had declining numbers for many years with no end in sight. This is just one of many policies that have turned a large number of people away.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/pcusa-decline-in-churches-members-continued-in-2013-120725/

http://www.twincities.com/stpaul/ci_24626357/declining-numbers-forcing-churches-face-new-futures

 

[MtnCreek]

Don't forget the supporting legislation to ban armor-piercing handgun ammunition.

 

[Midwest]

http://www.pcusa.org/news/2014/6/19/assembly-acts-decisively-gun-violence-abortion-tax/

A girl I went to high school with had this on her Facebook page. I know nothing of the Presbyterian faith, other than what I've read here, but it appears to me they are decidedly anti-gun. Keypoints: supporting an AWB, ban on the .50BMG, anti-stand your ground laws (they want you to try to de-escalate situations, including where life in being threatened as well as rely on law enforcement), and encouraging church functions / grounds to be gun free zones.

Those sound like talking points taken right out the Bloomberg camp.

.

 

[monk d]

PCUSA has long been irrelevant. For years now they have blown in whatever social justice wind prevails, and that includes controversial social issues that they seem to always camp out on the left side of. They must be afraid that people will dislike or hate them, only thing I can figure. It is a shame because theologically, at one time, they were the most conservative guys out there...next to Baptists

 

[Sam Cade]

The organizational end of Christian denominations are often decidedly anti-gun.

To wit:
The United Methodist Church

develop advocacy groups within local congregations to advocate for the eventual reduction of the availability of guns in society with a particular emphasis upon handguns, handgun ammunition, assault weapons, automatic weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and guns that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal detection devices.

http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/gun-violence

Therefore, every United Methodist church is officially declared a weapon-free zone.

http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/church-is-a-weapon-free-zone

Catholic Bishops:

1.Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms

2.Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)

3.Call for sensible regulations of handguns

4.Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons

5.Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

http://www.usccb.org/news/2012/12-219.cfm
http://ncronline.org/news/politics/pro-gun-catholics-clash-bishops-desire-firearm-regulation

 

[Sam1911]

A religious organization trying to drive public policy? How utterly unprecedented!

However, let's be careful to stay on matters of church policy here, and not delve into RELIGION itself.

Of course, how to battle the church leadership on these points, probably will have to delve into matters of faith (which we won't discuss here) as well as practical, physical world matters of practicality, ethics, social science, leverage, influence, and so forth (which we can).

Good luck, though. It is worth noting that church leaders are inordinately familiar with being RIGHT in the midst of thousands or millions of their fellow man vehemently disagreeing with things they believe deeply. In fact, many seem to take a kind of pride in that.

Again, without (or while trying to avoid) straying into matters of "faith," our favorite tools of reason and logic and fact have a historical record of practically 0-for-a million in swaying the views of such men.

 

[Sam Cade]

they were the most conservative guys out there...next to Baptists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Land

http://erlc.com/article/letter-to-president-obama-re-gun-control/

Among legislative actions we support are mandatory criminal background checks for all gun sales. Such a policy should close existing loopholes, including the so-called gun show loophole, which enables private sales of firearms without background checks.

 

[zxcvbob]

There are lots of different Presbyterian denominations. PC USA is one of the liberal-theology social-progressive branches. IMHO, they let the social-progressive infiltrators rewrite their theology.

 

[Sam Cade]

There are lots of different Presbyterian denominations. PC USA is one of the liberal-theology social-progressive branches.

The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), or PC(USA), is a mainline Protestant Christian denomination in the United States. Part of the Reformed tradition, it is the largest Presbyterian denomination in the U.S. The PC(USA) was established by the 1983 merger of the Presbyterian Church in the United States, whose churches were located in the Southern and border states, with the United Presbyterian Church in the United States of America, whose congregations could be found in every state.

The denomination had 1,760,200 members and 20,562 ordained ministers in 10,083 congregations at the end of 2013.[1] Though its membership has declined significantly in the past several years,[2][3] the PC(USA) remains the most visible Presbyterian denomination in North America.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterian_Church_(U.S.A.)

 

[zxcvbob]

I never said they weren't the largest branch.

 

[Midwest]

Have there been any reports of Moms, Gabby or Bloomberg making the rounds to churches or church organizations? All I know is that they have been visiting State Capitols on buses trying to influence politicians. Most of the time these tours get little or no news coverage, unless someone on our side finds out about it and reports it on one of the pro-gun websites.

.

 

[Joe Demko]

The very first step in influencing the direction any particular church is leaning politically is to be a member in good standing of that church. I can't think of a single church that sets its policies based on the opinions of outsiders. Some of them apparently don't even place a lot of importance on the opinions of insiders who are not ranking clergy.

 

[Ryanxia]

In the aftermath of Sandy Hook I had a few discussions with my Church members and at least gave enough information to see the other side of the media blitz that was going on.
Since then I've gotten a few more Church members to get their CCW's and now they carry as well (yes even in Church).

 

[Old Dog]

What should be noted is that significant numbers of Presbyterian churches seceded from PC(USA) in recent years, largely after the organization approved ordaining (practicing) homosexuals. This was the tipping point for many churches, mine included; there are huge numbers of far more conservative independent Presbyterian churches that disagree with many, many of the more liberal positions developed by PC(USA) over the past twenty to thirty years.

 

[AlexanderA]

The leadership of many mainline churches is decidedly antigun. That doesn't mean that the rank-and-file members are.

For example, as early as 1974, the General Board of Church and Society of the United Methodist Church was instrumental in forming the National Coalition to Ban Handguns (Michael Beard's organization, now known as the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence). In fact, that organization, for years, was headquartered in the United Methodist Church's offices on Capitol Hill, in Washington. For all I know, it's still there.

 

[Sam Cade]

That doesn't mean that the rank-and-file members are.

It also doesn't mean they aren't.

http://publicreligion.org/research/2013/01/january-2013-tracking-poll/

Most major religious groups in the country favor the passage of stricter gun control laws, including majorities of minority Protestants such as black Americans (76%), Catholics (67%), the religiously unaffiliated (60%), and white mainline Protestants (57%). White evangelical Protestants stand out as the group least likely to support stricter gun control laws (38% favor, 59% oppose).

 

[1911Tuner]

The last church that I attended before I moved out of the area had a minister and a group of deacons and elders who understood the ways of the world.

Being a small country church and fairly isolated, these people weren't laboring under any pretenses about safety or silly notions of gun free zones.

They were also rural people used to seeing to their own security.

The preacher kept a loaded 12 gauge coach gun behind the pulpit, and everybody knew it was there.

Whenever he greeted me, he'd pat my jacket to make sure "it" was there...smile and say: "Good to see ya this fine mornin', brother."

I saw him give that little pat to several other people on a few occasions.

My guess is that anybody who decided to target that little country church on that little NC backroad would have been in for a bad day.

 

[CovertOps]

http://www.pcusa.org/news/2014/6/19/assembly-acts-decisively-gun-violence-abortion-tax/

A girl I went to high school with had this on her Facebook page. I know nothing of the Presbyterian faith, other than what I've read here, but it appears to me they are decidedly anti-gun. Keypoints: supporting an AWB, ban on the .50BMG, anti-stand your ground laws (they want you to try to de-escalate situations, including where life in being threatened as well as rely on law enforcement), and encouraging church functions / grounds to be gun free zones.

Having been exposed to this very same nonsense in Mlps MN when all of these so-called churches were levying lawsuit after lawsuit at MN's ccw law, I have concluded that first and foremost that they are not in anyway churches in any conventional sense, but rather socialist inclined community organizing fronts masquerading as churches, and are in truth Marxist cesspools of Cloward & Piven think totally dedicated to the concept of social justice!

 

[Joe Demko]

Poe's Law.

 

[bigride]

My church just sponsored a ccw class in the church. Had over 20 partcipants.

 

[moxie]

All Presbyterians are not alike. Need to distinguish between them.

The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) is the denomination under discussion. Very, very, liberal.

The Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC) are two very conservative denominations who are typically pro-gun and generally have no issues with concealed carry, etc.


In fact, TenDriver, I'd appreciate it if you would change the title of your post to "Presbyterian Church (USA)". Otherwise it's giving a very false impression.

 

[Dframe]

All true! One of many reasons I no longer attend or in ANY way affiliate with the methodist church, in which I was raised.

 

[barnbwt]

I thought pretty much all organized religions were anti-gun (or at least, anti 'weapon')? The only one I'm aware of that endorses some form of personal/social protection as a core tenant is Sikhism, where a kirpan dagger is a necessary accoutrement of observant disciples.

TCB

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

Hey Barnbwt, get to know some of us better I am a Church of God minister and carry ccw. Most of my jobs before I was called involved carrying a firearm, so it's like a pair of shoes to me. I also know a state minister that is a competitor in 3-gun.

I know several that hunt, target shoot and own handguns or rifles for personal protection.

In 3rd world countries, many missionarys carry a handgun, a lot use a .44 mag for 4 legged or 2 legged protection. It's all in how you feel about it.