Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Primer Explosion

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by carlo1776, Mar 4, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. fguffey

    fguffey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,657
  2. 10 Spot Terminator

    10 Spot Terminator Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    217
    Let us not forget people that companies such as Remington and several others who design military firearms have built firearms with electric ignition systems in them . Static electricity gets far and away severely hotter than 110 volt household current ( electric fence scenario ) . Dont think so ? Get yourself hit by lightning one time and if you survive it odds are you will have changed your mind. I worked in a high voltage manufacturing facility for nearly 20 years and saw plenty of examples of what static electricity can do. Have had those days when the atmospherics were just right and everytime you touched something you got the snap and at times were definitely hotter sparks than others and at times hot enough you can hear it when it goes off. Can static electricity set of a primer ? I would be willing to bet it can . Would be curious what brand and exact model primer that got the poor fella. All primers not being equal and all that. I suspect may have been a magnum series designed to burn hotter with a more volatile makeup than others to begin with. Ever notice how even in the earliest days you never saw a metal primer flipper tray or primers packaged in metal containers. Why do you suppose that might be ???

    10 Spot
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Black powder caps come in metal tins.

    What would make them static proof when primers aren't??

    [​IMG]

    rc
     
  4. fguffey

    fguffey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,657
    Primer safety: Why do I suppose might be?

    Today, 11:50 AM #52
    10 Spot Terminator
    Member


    Join Date: February 6, 2008
    Posts: 198 . Ever notice how even in the earliest days you never saw a metal primer flipper tray or primers packaged in metal containers. Why do you suppose that might be ???

    10 Spot



    “Why do ‘I’ suppose that might be???”

    When loading primer tubes I use a large flip tray, the flip tray is large enough to cover the large trays used by Federal, I have no clue what the capacity of the large flip tray is. I have dumped 300 primers into it with room to spare.

    The large primer flip tray I use is metal and has to be expensive, with a metal lid. Stamped and or injected plastic is cheaper to manufacturer.

    F. Guffey
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  5. GaryL

    GaryL Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,178
    Location:
    MN
    A number of reasons actually. Originally they were wood and paper. Now they are plastic. I would not be surprised if that plastic has carbon or some other conductive material mixed in to dissipate static electricity. In fact, I'm fairly certain of it with the Winchester primers. Plastic does not need to be black to be static conductive. Plastic is preferable over wood for that and other reasons, like cost.

    Anyway, the main reason for using plastic over metal is safety. It is much less lethal as shrapnel, and it tends to absorb shock, so a little less likely to propagate an explosion.
     
  6. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6,614
    If it was static electricity I wouldn't ride to the gas station with that guy. Be handy out in the woods when it came time to light the lanterns though.
     
  7. toiville2feathers

    toiville2feathers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    256
    Location:
    Ogema, MN
    I've had a thought about the primer explosion. could it be that he was using,or someone else was in the vicinity using a cell phone. If you filling your car at the gas station have you ever noticed the warning about cell phone use. There is a reason for posting it there and it isn't for entertaining ready while you waiting to get it full.
    Just a thought
     
  8. Sun Tzu warrior

    Sun Tzu warrior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    365
    Sounds to me that your neighbor was making a detonator out of a shell casing,and it went off while he tried to crimp it, I had a neighbor loose a finger "because a chicken feeder fell on it" yeah that's it.....
    As a child (10 years old) I had a 12 ga shotgun primer go off on me, an empty case, no powder, no shot.
    Just me, a vice, the empty 12 ga shot shell, and a phillips screw driver..... the anvil stayed in my hand for over 30 years before I had it removed. I didn't even remember the incident, I guess I blocked it out of my memory, (I was afraid to tell dad what I had done) until I saw the X-rays all those years later. It may not be as bad as I first described, but I would be willing to bet, as in my case, it was self inflicted!

    Fguffy, I have always purchased precussion caps in a metal containers. I am absolutly certain they are more suseptable to static electricity, than primers. There is more to this story than even the OP is aware of.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  9. kingmt

    kingmt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,599
    Yes. The reason is there slide stupid. Next their going to tell us that refilling bottle will cause cancer.

    They don't even post no smoking signs at the pump here anymore.
     
  10. fguffey

    fguffey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,657
    Today, 01:58 AM #58
    Sun Tzu warrior
    Member


    Join Date: June 24, 2012
    Posts: 66

    Fguffy, I have always purchased percussion caps in a metal containers. I am absolutely certain they are more susceptible to static electricity, than primers. There is more to this story than even the OP is aware of.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Sun Tzu warrior; Today at 02:20 AM.



    Sun Tzu Tzu, thank you for that information, I have three tins of percussion caps, I have never found percussion caps in anything but tins (small, round metal cans), the percussion caps are allowed to rattle around and bounce against each other, it has been that way from the beginning, I have one tin that has the appearance of having been walked on, the tin looks like a Kessler can of solder paste. The oval top is no longer convex-ed, the bottom is dented but no ignition, I would only guess the tin will support more weight than a fiber box, and if disaster struck the tin could contain the damage inflicted on the abusive user. Then there is the seal, there is no way to seal a fiber carton, a good fitting metal lid would fit a good metal fitting cup/tin, in the old days that is all they had. I am sure they had static electricity in the old days, as sure as I am static electricity was present I am sure the ride was rougher, and I am convinced the tin was less likely to be crushed, the tin is the better choice.

    Again, I use a metal flip tray,

    In the old days explosions were not uncommon, DuPont on the Brandywine, would not allow dogs on the premises, workers did not want to take a chance on being buried with the remains of dog.

    http://www.cowart.info/Florida History/Dupont/Dupont Biography.htm

    F. Guffey
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  11. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    3,135
    Primers contain actual high explosives.
     
  12. Lloyd Smale

    Lloyd Smale Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,949
    Location:
    Munising MI
    aint happening. Something else hes not admitting was involved.
     
  13. Reloadron
    • Contributing Member

    Reloadron Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    6,661
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
  14. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    17,109
    Location:
    Illinois
    Interesting link Ron.

    Note how they set up the test; the got the spark THROUGH the priming material.

    Of note, NONE of the commercial sized primers that were tested, ignited at human attainable levels of static electricity, despite being shocked directly through the primer material.

    The primers which ignited at human levels are;

    20mm electric
    30mm
    Large Rifle (Electric)

    None of the percussion smaller primers went, including 50 BMG and 20mm arsenal primers.
     
  15. Reloadron
    • Contributing Member

    Reloadron Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    6,661
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    Yeah, that was the part I found interesting. Try as they did they were unable to get a detonation on any of the primers we have come to know and love.

    Having been in electrical engineering for over 40 years I have learned that electricity including electro static discharge, does not always behave the way we think it should. Every now and then we see something happen that just sort of defies the logic of the beast.

    However, with that said, I still do not see a primer detonating from being touched or even drawing a small ESD arc.

    Ron
     
  16. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,170
    Location:
    Wet Oregon
    I wonder if Sandia could test that spontanious human combustion business. probably not
     
  17. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6,614
    I used to keep all my primers in used pickle jars but when I knocked one off the bench it would take hours to seperate the primers from the glass, I went to the hardware and got some 3" pipe nipples and some caps and now they are safe and sound and with some teflon tape on the threads there are waterproof as well:scrutiny::rolleyes:
    Never trusted that packaging that came from the factory.
     
  18. fguffey

    fguffey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,657
    Today, 11:25 AM #67
    X-Rap
    Member


    Join Date: September 23, 2006
    Posts: 3,554 I used to keep all my primers in used pickle jars but when I knocked one off the bench it would take hours to seperate the primers from the glass, I went to the hardware and got some 3" pipe nipples and some caps and now they are safe and sound and with some teflon tape on the threads there are waterproof as well
    Never trusted that packaging that came from the factory.
    __________________
    In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king


    Somewhere out here is a warning, something about the danger of placing primers is a class jar, the same warning comes with ‘Hot Ice’.

    Throughout this thread is a warning and or a caution, it has to do with confinement, a press on lid is better than a screw on lid, when something lets go I 'let it go’ I want no part of confining ‘it’ with anything that is going to allow resistance to pressure building. I do not know the tested strength of the 3” pipe, I do not know if the pipe is metal and or PVC.

    Many years ago we made toys out or carbide, long baking soda cans with tight lids, we would punch a hole in the bottom of the can, add carbide, add spit, elevate the can, hold with our foot then light the gas escaping the hole. Most entertaining until an adult came along and thought we were having too much fun, Then there were the large bolt attached with one nut in the center, we cut match heads off, packed the area between the bolt heads then threw them.

    Then there was the day we almost orphaned ourselves, when my son would ask to use a tool I ask “What for?”

    F. Guffey
     
  19. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    3,135
    Static electricity has its own behavior.

    It tries to spread the electrons out uniformly over a conductive surface.

    if the charge entered the anvil, it would try to get to the primer cup, right through the primer compound.

    Static sparks need a defined energy to ignite things though.

    If you keep the energy level low enough nothing much happens.

    It is not the voltage OR the current alone, but the combination of both to provide adequate ignition energy.

    Static sparks can get up to 20,000 volts.the current is VERY low though.
    Fractions of a micro-amp.

    There are tables showing the energy of a spark to ignite all sorts of things.

    Gasoline, alcohols (various types, flour, sugar, just about any flammable dust you can think of.

    One of the 'tricks' is to make sure the source of any static spark will be VERY high impedance.
    This limits the current that can occur.


    There is still very likely more to this story though.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page