Primer Pocket depth

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BigGame

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I was reading in a recent magazine about reloading accuracy. I have a tumbler and generally clean my shells, then neck resize, and remove primer. I then put the shells back in the tumbler to make certain the primer pocket is clean. I usually trim the brass to the correct length. I use Winchester, Federal, and Remmington brass. How important is primer pocket depth? How often should I ream the flash hole?
 
A primer pocket needs to be deep enough to seat the primer to the bottom with the head of the primer just below flush. Virtually all primer pockets come that way and never have to be reamed or even cleaned. I never clean them. So you don't need to do that second cleaning. Just seat the primer to the bottom. You're good to go.

Flash holes never have to be reamed unless your decapping pin won't fit through it, which is very rare. Easier to toss the case.

The military crimp needs to be removed from some cases, usually 5.56/.223 and 7.62. There are a number of special tools for that.
 
A fellow shooter got a bunch of WWII .45 ACP brass that had a primer pocket was quite shallow and smaller in dia. which must have been made that way to prevent a rifle primer from being installed. I cut new primer pockets for him.
 
If you prime with a system that relies on a depth stop, then uniformity of primer pockets is critical. If you want reliable ammo, anyway.

If you prime by feel, then the only thing that matters is that the primer is at least flush or below.

There are some combinations of brass and primer that can't get all the way flush without crushing the primer. This is rare, but it does happen. Some primers are made with what is essentially a cup with an outside chamfer (e.g. Remington); and some manufacturers of old (ancient R-P 38 special was what I encountered) made primer pockets with a rounded internal corner that fit with their own primer cups. Most other brands of primers don't seat flush in this specific brass. Good old tolerance stacking and mistakes also happen. I have many FC cases that seat primers about .012" below flush before the anvil is set. If I were to seat primers only 0.004" below flush in these cases, there would be many failures to fire.

The best way to prime is by feel. But if you use a progressive press with a depth stop, uniforming your pockets (and discarding brass with deep pockets) will get you close enough to matter.
 
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Virtually all primer pockets come that way and never have to be reamed or even cleaned. I never clean them. So you don't need to do that second cleaning. Just seat the primer to the bottom. You're good to go.
Don't do this. There can be enough buildup to cause issues.:uhoh: Keep cleaning as you are and you will be fine.
 
You certainly don’t want primers sticking above the case head. CCI states that high primers are the most common cause of mis fires. For a primer to reliably ignite, the anvil have to be rested on a solid surface, and the gap between cup and anvil peak has to be properly set. You set that gap by setting the anvil in the pocket and pushing the primer cup (and thus primer cake) towards the anvil peak. Too much gap and the primer is too insensitive to ignite, too little gap, you are likely to crack the primer cake and have a misfire.

However, given a shallow pocket, or if you stuck a spacer in the bottom of your primer pocket, then you have the conditions for a high primer and a solidly rested anvil.

It is my recollection that Frankford Arsenal set their primer seating depth to 0.0 to -0.005”. I want a little more depth to the primer, just in case something is on the bolt face, so something around -0.002” to - 0.005” is better.

Even though I think I am rationale, it turns out, I am like all the other irrational humans on this world, easily swayed by emotion and stupid thoughts. Decades after having two out of battery slamfires with Garands, which I know were caused only by sensitive primers, still, I thought that maybe reaming pockets deeper was a good safety measure. This is foolish as primers only have to be below the case head and the best reloading preventative measure is to use the least sensitive primers in Garand type mechanisms, which I do, and these primers are CCI #34’s or Tula7.62 mil spec primers.

So, after reaming these pockets extra deep, I took that ammunition to a 1000 yard match and shot it in my match M70. I got lots of misfires: click and no bang. I had at least 20 misfires, and the ones that went off, well I am going to blame my poor groups on poor ignition. Much easier to blame the ammunition than a lack of shooting skills and wind reading ability, which of course, are faults I won’t admit having. :neener:

So, here is one of those cases that did not go bang when hit by the firing pin of my M70. Looks like a good hit. But it was not, the primer was too deep, and it was already a rather insensitive primer to begin with.

DSCN1352Insufficientfiringpinstrike.jpg

After the match I decided to measure the depth of the primers below the case head.

Primer seating depth on CCI #34 primers in LC79 308 cases that misfired in M70


0.004
0.004
0.004
0.005
0.005
0.005
0.006
0.006
0.006
0.008
0.008
0.008
0.009
0.009
0.009
0.009
0.01
0.011
0.012

avg depth 0.007

N = 19


IMG_1603ShallowprimerimpactsbyWinheavybyM1a.jpg
Next local 100 yard reduced match, I decided to shoot that ammunition in my M1a. The basic Garand mechanism has a very powerful ignition system and plenty of firing pin protrusion. The picture of ammunition in this box, the tall cases are some of the pre struck M70 ammunition, the short cases are pre struck M70 cases that went bang in the M1a chamber. At least I did not have to pull the cases down, and that M1a had more than enough energy to make these pre dimpled primers ignite.

While I still ream pockets, I no longer ream to the crazy depths that I used to.

I recently sent my Garand bolt to Roland Beaver and he installed a firing pin spring that will positively retard firing pin rebound. This, combined with my mil spec primers, should provide the most protection against slamfires, in this mechanism, caused by firing pin kinetic energy.

DSCN2283M1BoltRolandBeaver_zps45f1cf3c.jpg

Roland charged me $25.00 total, I shipped it on a Monday, received the bolt back next Monday.

This has not eliminated firing pin indentations in my Garand. As a worse case test, I placed these rounds in the chamber, pointed the muzzle at the ground, and tripped the bolt release. Even with a firing pin spring, these primers were dented.


IMG_2565FiringpinindentationsafterRolandBeaverMod_zps75a0152f.jpg



IMG_2566FiringpinindentationsafterRolandBeaverMod_zps6542564b.jpg
 
I agree, there is no reason not to clean the pockets, I always have. Carbon build up could create a false seat, create a poor seal, or even cause the primer to seat unevenly.

I have absolutely no evidence that cleaning the pockets will cause problems, as I've never had a single primer not go bang, but then again I always clean the pockets.

I use an RCBS priming die, which allows me to seat at predetermined depths, and even though I don't uniform my pockets, I almost always get consistent depths with matching head stamps.

GS
 
FWIW,

I use the RCBS primer pocket uniform tool once in my brass. I also clean up the flash hole using a RCBS de-burrer. It's just me, I like a clean slate. After "I" uniform and clean up the flash hole, I just hit them with the RCBS primer pocket brush real quick. A long and tedious process, then to top off, I have a single stage press, but it's my hobby and I like to do that and I have great ammo as a result.
 
It's just too easy for me to deprime with my Harvey tool or my new uni die and standalone single press. Then wet tumble. Some say this whole first brass process is an extra step. It's just my normal process and perfect primer pockets remove all doubt.
 
FWIW,

I use the RCBS primer pocket uniform tool once in my brass. I also clean up the flash hole using a RCBS de-burrer. It's just me, I like a clean slate. After "I" uniform and clean up the flash hole, I just hit them with the RCBS primer pocket brush real quick. A long and tedious process, then to top off, I have a single stage press, but it's my hobby and I like to do that and I have great ammo as a result.
Agree, this is the same procedure I do.
 
Every piece of resized/deprimed brass that rolls off my press gets a quick pass on the brush....
 

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Primer Pocket reaming

Slamfire,
Thanks for the explanation about pocket depth. While I have more than one caliber, my go to long range rifle is a Browning .243 Gold Medallion. I can achieve 5 shot groups, when I shoot, tearing holes that touch each other at 100 yards. Occasionally I have an outlier when my trigger pull is less that smooth. I believe the .243 case is a necked down .308. While I am not a competitive shooter, I gave this rifle to my 12 year old grandson last Christmas to take his first deer. I believe the method which I am using (two wet baths) should reduce build up in the primer pocket. I am trying to develop a reduced recoil load that also achieves good accuracy, so that my grandson does not establish a flinch. I made a mistake and allowed him to shoot my .270 Weatherby and it scared him. I am trying to get him to shoot consistently and I believe reduced recoil loads will help him develop his ability to hit what he is shooting at with confidence. He is good with a bb gun (which we started at 5 years) and he is good with his .22 (which we started at 10 years). I wish to take him deer hunting this next year with me on a private ranch near my home. My thought process is to have him shoot 100 grain bullets (Speer BTSP) which he will use during a hunt. The load recipe I have used most recently, that seems to work well for me, is using Remington primers and 35.5 grains of IMR 4350. I am not going to allow him to shoot anything greater than 100 yards until I am confident that he is a proficient shooter. Thank you for your explanation about your experience with primer pocket depth. I weigh each case and bullet. I check each primer to make certain it seated evenly with the case using my straight edge. I weigh each powder load to within .0001 of a grain and I check each finished round for OAL to within .001 and allow for .001 bullet jump. I am probably being too anal, however I want to remove every mechanical factor from the equation so that all my grandson has to do is develop consistent accuracy before we hunt together.
 
In nearly 4 decades of reloading I have never had a FTFire in a rifle round. I do not clean the pockets either. As long has the primer is fully seated it will go bang. Now if you have excessive head space you can run into problems but it's not the primer fault.
 
Don't wet tumble, then dry and expect the pocket deposits to come out with a brush type primer pocket cleaner. The deposits become very hard. As I stated, best to deprime first.
 
I leave the spent primers in during dry tumbling !! If the spent primer is there there is no chance of the flash hole being plugged with corn !!! Also if you totally seat the primer every time the chances of carbon build up are less because the primer body is there to stop that !! On the next primer seating as long as you are .005 below flush you are good to go !!!!! If you don't totally seat your primer you will certainly have carbon build up and it will definitely need to be cleaned before next primer insert!!! Sounds like you got all the information you need! !!
 
Thanks for the explanation about pocket depth. While I have more than one caliber, my go to long range rifle is a Browning .243 Gold Medallion. I can achieve 5 shot groups, when I shoot, tearing holes that touch each other at 100 yards.

That is outstanding shooting and the 243 Win is a very accurate caliber, it has won the Nationals at Camp Perry several times with its low recoil and flat trajectory. I talked to a HM shooter using one, he replaced his barrels at 800 rounds! Barrel life is the primary reason it is not more widely used.
 
Thank you all

Thanks everyone for the posts. I don't think I am too far off base the way I am currently doing things. I see no need to ream primer pockets if I can seat the primer flush with the case bottom. The second wet bath may be overkill, however I don't think it will harm the brass and it certainly cleans the primer pocket nicely. I was all set to purchase a primer pocket reamer and brush but have decided to save a little more and buy a Dillon swage for my .223 and
.308 cases.
 
No need to measure anything unless you are having a problem seating them below flush. If you are make sure there is no primer pocket crimp.

If you want to uniform them for better performance in a precision rifle, get a K&M uniformer and use it.

I have not run into any primer pockets that were too shallow to seat a primer below flush. I am sure there are some out there.
 
The issue here, as with many in reloading, is the difference between what is really needed and what is nice to do. As someone said, it's your hobby, and you can do what you want. Some want really shiny clean brass. It looks great, but it's not necessary. Cleaning primer pockets isn't necessary but it doesn't hurt to do it. So go ahead. The time and effort each person spends on his hobby is a personal thing. Whatever procedures you use, if the rounds you make go bang and hit the target, then you have reloaded some very good ammo.
 
uploadfromtaptalk1426092325049.jpg got some major primer punishment happening here its a 300 win mag with only 100 rounds through it hope it isn't to deep !!!! uploadfromtaptalk1426092474581.jpg
 
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