Primer question

[Rectodynia]

Greetings to all. I have been lurking in the background for several weeks, and am impressed with the professionalism of the site, and the kindness of the people, and the general quality of the information. I have never been on a forum of any kind before, and hope I'm not covering old ground

I have a bunch of small rifle primers that I never seem to get around to loading into cartridges. Is it safe to use these as substitutes for small magnum pistol primers? Naturally, I would start well below the listed maximum loads, which I really don't use anyway.

Have any of you folks done this? I promise not to take reports of experience as recommendations.

Thanks,
Rectodynia

 

[Chawbaccer]

I reckon it is safe, rifle primers are a harder metal tho and you might have some missfires.

 

[Doug b]

Ditto Chawbaccer's reply,I bet it burns dirty though.Let me know, if you would.

 

[loadedround]

I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree with the above two replies. Rifle primers burn much more hotter than pistol primers(including SP Magnum primers) and could increase pressure drastically, possibly detonating instead of burning the faster handgun powder a small pistol case. Secondly the primer cup is much harder in a rifle primer than in a pistol primer and you could be inviting misfires or hangfires by using SR primers.. The only pistol caliber that I know of designed to use a small rifle primer is the 454 Casull. I'm not familiar with the 450 or 475 Linebaugh or the new S&W Magnums to say what primers they use. Please be safe and don't mix primers.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Long story shortened...I'm with Loadedround.

 

[ReloaderFred]

It's not generally a good idea to mix primers, but there is ample data available in some calibers of pistol rounds for small rifle primers, since they are the same size, which isn't the case with large rifle and pistol primers. Handloader Magazine has done some work with small rifle primers in the rounds listed below.

I regularly use small rifle primers in hot .38 Super, .38 Super Comp, 9mm super Comp, 9x23 Winchester and .400 Cor-Bon cases using the small primer pocket. You have to work up your loads for those primers, and the firing pin strike has to be strong enough to set off the slightly thicker primer cup.

The bottom line is that you just can't interchange them without working up the load.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Jim Watson]

What gun, what caliber, what powder?

I am now loading 9mm P with small rifle primers. I have a lot more than I need for .223. They give higher velocity than small pistol standard but lower velocity than small pistol magnum. Readily managed by a slight reduction in powder charge.

At one time Federal did not make a small pistol magnum primer and recommended their small rifle primer for .357 Magnum.

This sort of thing is why the manuals have all that dull stuff about starting loads and "working up" and why a chronograph is handy, and is what makes the difference between handloading and a recipe hunt.

 

[Rectodynia]

Appreciate the help

I thank all of you for your information. This may be a case where the safety factor may not play into the equation, because both of my pistols tend to strike on the easy side, to the extent that I even quit using CCI primers because I was getting misfires.

I primarily load .38 spl./.357 magnum. The .38s tend to be light target rounds and I hadn't considered using the rifle primers for it.

In the .357, I either load light Universal Clays, or moderate HS-6. My heaviest load is for SD and is HS-6 10.0gr behind a 140gr. Hornady XTP, with Winchester magnum primer. These are also not something I would consider substituting primers for. My usual target loads are 9.4gr HS-6 behind either a Remington 125gr SJHP or a Ranier 125gr jacketed flat point.

In any event, I really appreciate the advice. There's always more to learn and it seems that someone or another has tried about every variable possible.

Rectodynia
________________________________________________________

"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."
-- Grover Norquist

 

[BluesBear]

simple answer.

have a bunch of small rifle primers that I never seem to get around to loading into cartridges. Is it safe to use these as substitutes for small magnum pistol primers?

NO!

Rifle primers are designed to be used in the deeper primer pockets found in rifle brass. So there is the danger of them not seating completely in pistol brass.

They also have a harder cup which could lead to misfires or even hangfires if used in pistols or revolvers.

 

[YellowLab]

I doubt that they would cause a KB, and even now, as I look at a CCI 200 sitting in the primer pocket of a .45ACP case it fits fine... if anything they are a TAD long (would have to adjust press to seat flush).

Call the manufacturer, ask them... we are simply guessing.

 

[loadedround]

Yellowlab: Who's guessing? I don't think so.

 

[RyanM]

One load book I saw actually said to use small rifle primers in the listed .357 magnum loads. Depends on what your load is. If you're going to do it, work up slow.

Found it. It's Vihtavuori. Small rifle primers, Remington cases.

 

[YellowLab]

For the groups educational purposes.. for the know it all reloaders who say you should NEVER use a small rife primer in a small pistol case.... WHY?

I can see why a MAGNUM primer would be out of the question.. as they are designed from the start to give a 'hotter spark'. But what is so different about the small rifle/small pistol primers that is verbotten?

Anyone got any data (flame temp, pressures etc) that are so over the limit that would cause one to not use it?

I am not advocating using components improperly... but just want to know the difference (other than the markings on the box).

 

[YellowLab]

Heres a blurb from CCIs FAQ:

Q: I have CCI Large Pistol primers. Can I use them instead of Large Rifle primers that I need to load for my rifle loading?
A: This is not advisable. Large pistol primers have less priming compound, and are shorter than Large Rifle primers. Misfires and under-ignition are very likely.

They do not mention KB's or instant death, or maiming, or the loss of your reloading license. They simply say that the Pistol Primers are weaker, and MAY NOT fire.

Conversly, a RIFLE primer in a PISTOL case would give more powder ignition. I would take a few .10's of a grain out and see how they work... I HIGHLY doubt that you are in the 'red zone' and will KB your pistol.

The MANUFACTURER is not saying its bad.. just that its probibly not the best.

 

[M40A1]

Small rifle and small pistol primers are the same size and the primer pockets are the same size and depth. This is not the case for large pistol and large rifle primers which have the same diameter, but different primer pocket depths.

IPSC shooters use small rifle primers in most of the hotter 9mm and .38 super rounds due to the thicker cup which can help prevent pierced primers. I am pretty sure that factory primed Winchester 9x23 brass has small rifle primers. I have never had a problem with small rifle primers, but I always start over and work up loads specific for using small rifle instead of small pistol.