Primer Seating Issues with 223 ??

[geosigma]

Hello All:

I am new to 223 reloading, but have been reloading pistol (9mm, 38/357 & 45) for ~ 8 years and 300BLK for ~ 2 years. I use a Hornady LNL Progressive with RCBS dies (223) & Hornady (300). I use Dillon Or LE Wilson Case Gauges and all fit wonderfully

I am having a problem with 223 / 300BLK primer seating. They hang when making them (30% - 50%) or and the ones that do go in, I have to exert so much pressure, I feel I am going to crush the primer. When they do ‘go in’ – it’s not unusual for them to be partial & cause a hang / drag / scalp on the shell plate.

I use Hornady case lube, I’ve prepped the inside of the primer pockets with my drill to: A) Inside only (tool off my case trimmer), B) a counter sink drill bit to remove ‘swage’ & make a small bevel or C) Both. Frankly, neither improve my odds much. I am using mixed headstamps. Both Lake City have made great rounds and crushed the primers. So, I don’t think that is it. Also, the odds of ‘military brass’ laying around at my shooting club would be low (I think) so the ‘swage’ theory seems unlikely to me.

I’ve recently purchased the Braggin’ Rights Press Pawl Adjustment guides. Basically, precise plugs to help make sure your sliding in at the right time on the upstroke of the pull and land just at the right time for the primer. It did show that I needed some adjustment – but not exaggerating – 1/16th of a turn on either pawl. Nothing significant. I was betting that was my issue but doesn't appear to be.

I have run out of ideas with this. I like this press. I know many will say I should go buy a Dillon, but like supplies, they are generally not available and not a practical idea financially.

My pistol primers, generally, slide into the rotating brass just fine. My 300BLK has similar primer seating issues (however, I don’t remember to this extent but I’m likely wrong).

Any suggestions would be helpful. I’ve run out of YouTube video’s as they all seem to focus on the primer dropping and sliding to the primer punch (no problems). My issue the punch into the primer pocket (brass). I appreciate your comments & Thank you.

Merry Christmas.

George

 

[Charlie98]

Just FYI... Lake City IS military brass. What you are describing is trying to force a primer into a crimped primer pocket. Truthfully, even some commercially headstamped brass can have crimped primer pockets.

There are a number of ways to address it... the Dillon is the high dollar solution, but RCBS and C&H make simple press-mounted swage kits... I use a C&H. You can also cut it out with careful application of a brass deburring tool... and physically cutting out the crimp.

 

[geosigma]

As in this (RCB Primer Pocket Swage Combo 2):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0063IDAX...colid=8EU7ZZQ84IBI&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

or Dillon:

https://www.dillonprecision.com/super-swage-600_8_8_25263.html

_____________

In other words, it's a case prep issue (& not my LNL)?

Thanks.

 

[geosigma]

& why wouldn't this remove the swage? I've had no difference in this / combined with an inside only tool / both:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002EVG0C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

(It's OK to say I don't know what I'm doing and take more metal off - I'm totally puzzled on this one).

 

[Barbaroja]

I think there is a lot to be said for using the right tool for the job.
I also think it’s your primer pockets still having the crimp intact is causing your problems.

 

[lightman]

I used a countersink tool like that for a long time with ok results. It sounds like you may not be taking enough of the crimp off. After trying several other methods/tools I pretty much settled on a reamer made by Wilson. Hornady, Lyman, RCBS and probably some others make a similar tool but the Wilson is made of better steel.

Also be aware that a lot of brands of ammo may have crimped primers, not just those with military headstamps. I've seen crimped primers in Federal, Hornady, Remington, Winchester, RWS and Norma brass. And lots of other lesser known headstamps. Its pretty easy to see the crimp once you get accustomed what to look for.

Crimps can be a PITA!

 

[Charlie98]

In other words, it's a case prep issue (& not my LNL)?

Yes.

As I mentioned, the Dillon is the Cadillac of PP swagers, the rest I believe are press-mounted tools, which are OK, too. Primer pocket swaging is also 'once and done...' meaning, you do it once, you don't have to do it again... so it would pay to keep your swaged brass separate from 'new' brass that has crimped primers.

 

[Charlie98]

(It's OK to say I don't know what I'm doing and take more metal off - I'm totally puzzled on this one).

There are two ways to remove PP crimp... swage it, or cut it. Tools like the Dillon and the RCBS die you posted are swagers... they just mash the crimp out of the way. Some of the other tools... like that countersink you posted... will physically cut the brass away. Yes, you can use any cutting tool, but you need to be judicious not to remove too much material... weakening the brass, or creating a loose primer pocket. If you look below your Amazon listing for the RCBS tool, you will see a number of other tools available, most of which are 'cutting' tools. You just have to decide how you wish to do it.

 

[Hondo 60]

Just FYI... Lake City IS military brass. What you are describing is trying to force a primer into a crimped primer pocket. Truthfully, even some commercially headstamped brass can have crimped primer pockets.

This was m,y 1st thought.
I would remove the crimp by using Lee's crimp remover
or if your hands don't work that way, there are a number of other ways
either on the press or separate units.

Good Luck!

 

[Blue68f100]

Another option is the Hornady Swager for the LNL-AP. I have this and it's fast once you get into a rythem. You do need to sort by mfg to get the best results.

I've had the most trouble with the 4 stake pockets. These are a little harder to get the primer pocket round, if you trying to cut it.

I'm in the group that prefers to leave the material and move it back where it came from. I had some brass give to me in 357sig that someone removed 25% of the pocket support. Every primer I removed had hard had rim from not being supported. All went into the scrap bin.

 

[alsaqr]

i use a case chamfering tool in the drill press. It's fast too.

 

[geosigma]

Thanks all. Clearly I have an item I need to address - case prep that I really have not addressed when doing pistol rounds. Slow but sure I'll dial this one in also.

 

[Charlie98]

Thanks all. Clearly I have an item I need to address - case prep that I really have not addressed when doing pistol rounds. Slow but sure I'll dial this one in also.

Just FYI... some 9mm pistol brass is crimped, too...

 

[loadedround]

Spend the bucks for the Dillon Super Swage 600. You will be very pleased with the ease you can swage those GI cases and will be able to seat those new primers perfectly. Jus ask the guy who owns one...me!

 

[geosigma]

I realize that the favorite appears to be the Dillon SS 600. It appears to be not in stock anywhere.

A close (appearance) second seems to be the Frankford Aresenal Primer Pocket Swager.

Any one feels this is a bad product? I've used their case vibrator for 8 years w/o a second of issues.

Again, an availability issue.

Thanks.

 

[Jim Watson]

I will check out the forthcoming Lee Ram Swage once it hits the market and gets some reviews.
https://leeprecision.com/ram-swage.html

 

[geosigma]

Thanks, but hoping to solve my problem now. If I were to wait, I'd wait for the Dillon.

 

[gifbohane]

Just for debate sake I prefer the cut out method of removing the military crimp. I had about zero luck with the "moving out of the way method" tools and could not bring myself to spend $ 150 for the Dillon swager. I would still have to jigger with the adjustments too much. I tried hard to use the usual removers but.....

The down side of the reamer is that I found them to get dull at say 3 or 4 thousand rounds. But I can buy a lot of reamers for $150 ($120 + tax+ shipping.) Plus my discussion with the Dillon sales guy was less than satisfying.

 

[Palladan44]

Just a side story- i accidentally had a few 5.56 LC brass in my batch of 223 brass. I reprimed one of them, and the primer did go in, it was a little rough. I foolishly let it slide. But of course i kept that round separate. Fired it, and the primer had a big black spot on the side where gas escaped out the back. It must have gotten damaged when repriming and split the side of the cup. Nothing bad happened, but it could have been worse.
Never again. Have different processes now.
I dont take any little part of the reloading process for granted, there is potential danger at each turn.

 

[Sniper66]

I've used a countersink drill bit on 100s of rounds with no difficulty. It is by feel as much as anything else. Just don't go nuts on the trimming. I know, I know, there is no way I know of to measure how much material to remove. So, if it feels right,,,,,,,,And BTW, my reloads are very good and very accurate.

 

[luzyfuerza]

I agree that your primer seating problem is entirely due to unremoved pocket crimps.

The tool you select to remove these crimps should be based on the number of .223/5.56 cases that you expect to have to remove the crimp from in, say, a year's time.

The RCBS tool is ok for maybe a couple hundred cases a year. The Dillon 600 maybe a couple thousand a year. Maybe a Dillon 1050 (which includes a crimp remover) with case feeder and motorized trimmer if you're going to prep 20k cases or more in a year.

I've used all three of these tools. I shoot a lot, so I could justify a 1050.

Only you can decide which one is right for your situation.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I bought the Dillon Super Swage 600 and I'm very happy with it. Once you service up you can fly through hundreds of cases quickly.

 

[mstreddy]

OP, I'll suggest that for whatever method you use to deal with the crimp, you may want to invest in a gauge to see if the pocket is good to go. I had the same problems you had with a batch of 223 brass in my Hornady LNL as well. These had been swaged on the RCBS (dillon copy) tool. I bought this go/no-go gauge tool and I was quickly able to determine which were good to go. With swaging, it's sometimes hard to see if the case has been crimp has been moved as well.
The tool really helps. No more crushed primers.