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Primer selection and AA#9

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by joneb, Jul 27, 2007.

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  1. joneb

    joneb Member

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    I bought a lb of AA#9 on closeout mostly for a 4" .357 mag. The primers I have on hand are WSP, WSPM, Fed-100 and Fed GM-100 and Fed 200 . The data I have lists CCI 500 as the preferred primer for AA#9, or will other small pistol primers do :confused: I am concerned about unspent powder tying up the gun.
     
  2. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    All of the AA #9 I've shot has been in 357 Sig and 10mm. In 357 Sig, I just use standard small pistol primers. In the 10mm, I use standard large pistol primers.

    Who had AA #9 on closeout and how much was it? Do they have anymore?

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  3. baz

    baz Member

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    I use CCI 500 and WSP interchangably with AA #7. Where are you getting your load data for AA #9? The AA load guides I have show the WSPM primer for all of its 357 loads, though I have been using CCI 500.
     
  4. joneb

    joneb Member

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  5. Mal H

    Mal H Administrator

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    Yes, your WSP's will work just fine. All of the AA single digit handgun powders are easy to ignite, and #9 is no exception. You can usually substitute most manufacturers primers for the listed primer in a reloading manual, as long as you substitute like for like (small pistol standard in this case), and, as usual, work up from min to max if they are new loads or back off around 10% if they are established loads for you.

    [Added]
    My hardcopy AA manual says to use CCI 500's. In fact the page on the website looks like a reprint of the page from the actual manual.

    The proper Win substitute for CCI 500's is the WSP. WSPM's would be the sub for CCI 550's.

    I also checked Speer and they recommend standard CCI 500's for #9.
     
  6. joneb

    joneb Member

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    Thanks, Mal
     
  7. QuickRick

    QuickRick Member

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    I've only used it in two calibers, 44 Mag pistol and 30 carbine rifle. Standard force primers worked fine in both guns. Worth noting, it is hands down the best powder I've ever used (and I've tried a bunch) in the 30 carbine. It provides the best accuracy with jacketed or lead bullets. It provides standard deviations much lower than anything else. I regularly get single digit SDs from 5 shot groups. This would also indicate to me that standard primers are adequate.
    Good luck and God Bless / Rick
     
  8. Clark

    Clark Member

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    AA#9 = Enforcer = H108 = WC820

    Is ball powder and likes a high pressure primer.

    But pistol cases are so small, that any primer will do.

    I have never had any not light for me and AA#9 is good with reduced loads, unlike H110, which then demands a hard crimp. Reduced AA#9 goes off with a wimpy primer and wimpy crimp.
     
  9. baz

    baz Member

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    I recognize that data. It is odd, to me, that in the newest guide, the primers are magnum primers (WSPM), though from a cursory glance at AA #9 w/ 125 grain Hornady XTP, the ballistics are exactly the same.
     
  10. joneb

    joneb Member

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  11. CZ57

    CZ57 member

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    JJ, Clark points out what some will never come to know about AA#9. It is much more versatile than other Magnum powders. One of the most overlooked things I continue to see, is that even though we have cases of various capacity, most reloaders assume that magnum powder means suitable for any magnum cartridge. It doesn't work that way. Think about it. If we were talking about magnum rifle cartridges, would someone really try to sell you on the idea that there is one single powder that works best for all?

    #9 is as close as you can get to the ideal burn rate for the .357 Magnum cartridge. Blue Dot was always my go-to powder previous to using #9. I don't know about #9 = X = Y = Z, #9 is manufactured in the Czech Republic, Ramshot Enforcer is manufactured in Belgium. I've put the question to the braintrust at Ramshot/Accurate; they are not the same powder. In fact, Enforcer could be the most undiscovered powder in existence!

    I tries to educate, but peoples just don't seem to listen. This why an understanding of pressure and bulk density is paramount. I've pretty much given up. Do a thread. Ask what powder you should use in the .357. Overwhelmingly, the answers will be 2400, H110, W296 and even L'il Gun that is even slower that H110! Now, if 1250 FPS with a 158 gr. bullet from a 6" heavily constructed revolver excites you, fine and dandy, but if you really want to shoot a whitetail at 75 yards, 1500 FPS sounds a hell of a lot better to me: 242 Ft/lbs better! What they don't really tell you is that they may be a little more challenged in dealing with the recoil. Plain and simple.

    A similar situation exists with primers. You can get a gazillion opinions, but what I've experienced in 25 + years of doing this, is that if you seat a CCI-500 correctly, which is .006" below the rim, and you don't have a mainspring issue, there isn't a more reliable primer. I agree with Mal. If you don't have CCIs, use the WSP. I use them almost interchangeably, but, I have had more failure to ignite issues with the WSP than I have with CCIs. Frankly, it surprisess me that guys that claim to have 88 years of experience handloading don't seem to know the correct seating depth of a primer. Must have missed issue # &$*^ of Reloader magazine. Check the archives on the subject and see how many have stated .006". It is a bit alarming!;)
     
  12. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I've liked AA #9 over Blue Dot, H110, W296, etc for years. Just because it is more versatile and gives all the velocity I need. Blue Dot is usefull, but I won't buy any more W296/H110. AA # 9 fills the bill. I have never used 2400. I don't chime in when that is discussed. After trying AA # 9 I was done. I am a big AA # 5 fan as well, though recent tests with WSF show it as a contender as well. :)

    I'm playing with Ramshot powders and they have real potential. I am impressed so far with Zip & Competition. Silhouette is, of course, the old Winchester WAP, and I have some True Blue but have not used it yet.
     
  13. huntershooter

    huntershooter Member

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    I use AA9 in .357 with a 180 gr. gas check cast bullet. I run a max. load and use CCI SP mag. (500?) primers. Very consistent velocity, great accuracy. This load shoots 2.5" at 50 yds. out of a mod. 27 S&W.
     
  14. LexDiamonds

    LexDiamonds Member

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    Just to chime in, I like AA#9 with CCI 350s in 10mm as well for full house loads. It likes 180gr+ bullets. Blue Dot is nice too, but #9 meters better. If I could only have 2 pistol powders to cover 380acp to 44mag, they would be Power Pistol and AA#9.
     
  15. D R Greysun

    D R Greysun Member

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    Accurate Data swings both ways. My rule of thumb, if it's a Mag. can put a Mag. match to it.

    D R
     
  16. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I did some load testing with 158’s and AA#9. The powder shot well, and it shot well with WSP. AA#9 was not particularly dirty, there was residue of course, but then there is residue will all powders.

    This S&W pistol is an extremely tight pistol and shoots tight groups. I think this is due to the chamber mouths being like .357 in diameter. For whatever reason every magnum load I have shot in this pistol gives me difficult extraction. I have to push on the extractor rod, they don’t fall out.

    These same loads, I fired in a three screw Ruger Blackhawk, the cases fell out. The Blackhawk has chamber mouths around .361” or so. I remember they were huge.

    Personally I think a 158 going 1200 fps is a good load in the 357. So I would load 14.0 grains AA#9 with a 158 JHP, and might try 11.5 grains with a 158 Lead bullet.

    I used CCI standard pistol primers, I wrote CCI500, I have a hard time keeping track of the CCI numbering system.

    Smith & Wesson M27-2 6.5” Barrel

    158 JHP 13.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP
    9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F
    Very accurate

    Ave Vel = 1156
    Std Dev = 35.63
    ES 160.6
    High 1230
    Low 1069
    N = 20


    158 JHP (W/W) 14.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP
    Very accurate


    Ave Vel = 1208
    Std Dev = 27.65
    ES 89
    High 1255
    Low 1166
    N = 24

    158 LRN Valiant 12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases
    5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F
    Very Accurate no leading

    Ave Vel = 1278
    Std Dev = 34.98
    ES 117.4
    High 1344
    Low 1226
    N = 27


    158 LRN Valiant 12.5 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases
    5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F
    Very Accurate no leading
    Ave Vel = 1348
    Std Dev = 34.16
    ES 134.7
    High 1386
    Low 1251
    N = 25

    158 LRN Valiant 13.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases
    5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F
    Very Accurate no leading

    Ave Vel = 1360
    Std Dev = 33.19
    ES 109.8
    High 1393
    Low 1284
    N = 26
     
  17. joneb

    joneb Member

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    I'd like to thank all of you for the help :) I picked up some CCI 500 primers today and soon will start load development with this powder using a variety of primers and charges.
     
  18. joneb

    joneb Member

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    Well I loaded some 180 gr XTPs with a variety of charges with AA#9 and CCI 500 primers,
    I used some unfired Remington brass, which I chose not to size. The case lengths where quiet good 1.282-1.284 Primer seating went well a little tough but consistent.
    The charges I went with were,
    11.6 gr x10rnds, accuracy was poor compared to following loads 3.5" at 25yds
    11.8 gr x10 " , better
    12.0 gr x10 ", better yet 2.5" at 25yrds
    12.3 gr x10 " 1.75- 2" at 25 very slight cratering of primers
    12.5 gr x5 " no change, slight cratering, shells ejected easily
    12.7 gr x5 " 2.25 at 25yds could be me or fouling ? increase in cratering, shell ejection was a little sticky.

    I think I'll try some other primers WLP, Rem 1 1/2 and Fed 100, and use the low 12's as a base.

    thanks for checkin in,
     
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