Priming Problem

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tickfarm

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I have some .30 cal. carbine brass that I'm having a problem priming. The brass is head stamped Lake City 1952 and 1944. The problem is I can't get primers to seat in the primer holes. The holes are to small. I'm using CCI 41 primers.

In inspecting the primer hole there appears to be a small rim around the inside of the primer hole. Thinking this my be a crimp ring I used my CH 4D pocket hole swagger and this did't help. I then used my RCBS case prep center and tried to remove the ring that way, again no luck.

I'm baffled by what is going on. I didn't thing .30 carbine used crimped primers. The other brass with 1955 and later head stamps does not have this problem. Any ideas or solutions would be appreciated. I hate to toss it as I have over 150 pieces of brass.:banghead:
 
The CCI 41 is a small rifle it's made for semi auto military rifles.
 
CCI #41's are harder, and CCI primers in general are known to be slightly harder to seat then other brands.

Do you have anything else you could try?

All U.S. made .30 Carbine uses Sm Rifle size primers.

There was once some fake Chinese LC 52? imported, but it was Berdan primed.
So if you de-primed it, it isn't that.

rc
 
You appear to not be removing the primer crimp completely. OR the head of the primer came off when deprimed and the side walls are still in the primer pocket. No amount of flaring will remove that. Look closely with a magnifying glass or such.
 
OR the head of the primer came off when deprimed and the side walls are still in the primer pocket.
This!

I never thought of that, but it is very possibly your problem.

rc
 
I never thought of that either and that may be the problem. I bought 500 pieces of brass several years ago on line. It is all military and looking at it you can see where they pulled the bullets, in fact a lot of it was still primed when I got it. Thanks for the help.
 
If you have a good set of calipers use them to measure the primer pocket ID. You should see a minimum of 0.1730" and a maximum of 0.1745". It's not unusual to see slightly under minimum at around 0.1725" on old military 30 carbine brass. However, you will know right away if the old primer sides are still in there as mentioned. Then measure the OD width of your primers. Small primer width should have a minimum of 0.1745" and a maximum of 0.1765". Those numbers are based on published SAAMI specifications and you can see where in some cases there may be a real tight fit. I would just see what you have and work from there.

Ron
 
Reloadron that was the problem the primer hole measured .160 and the primers at .174. I have never run into this before, makes you wonder whose primers were used and why. Thanks
 
I betcha you got broken primer cups stuck in the holes like frogo207 said.

The U.S. did not load any .30 Carbine with 160" primers during or after WWII.
Standardization on lots of things was one of the things that helped us win the war with our huge production capability.

Did you de-prime the cases yourself?
What came out?

rc
 
I betcha you got broken primer cups stuck in the holes like frogo207 said.

The U.S. did not load any .30 Carbine with 160" primers during or after WWII.
Standardization on lots of things was one of the things that helped us win the war with our huge production capability.

Did you de-prime the cases yourself?
What came out?

rc
I would tend to be in this group also.

Reloadron that was the problem the primer hole measured .160 and the primers at .174. I have never run into this before, makes you wonder whose primers were used and why. Thanks

You will be hard pressed (no pun intended) to get a normal .174" diameter primer in a primer cup with an ID of .160". While the .160" doesn't make much sense we can pretty much figure that a primer pocket swage isn't an answer. You have too much meat in there. More like a primer pocket reamer would be in order.

If this is as guessed you might get lucky using a good dental pick to remove whatever remains in the pockets, hard to say. Just need to figure out if what you have is worth the effort of screwing with it.

Ron
 
I de-primed them my self using an RCBS universal de-capping die. There may be primer cup left in the primer hole. it just seems strange it only occurred in those cases stamped 1944 or 1952.I'm not sure there worth messing with.
 
Assuming you guys have guessed the problem; What will be the solution? If you have a #18 or 19 drill bit (.1695/.1660) you might be able to twist the old primer cup out of the pocket.
Sounds tedious.
 
Do the insides of your primer pockets look sorta like this?
Also FWIW, I never had any luck with CCI #41 Arsenal primers in either my 1943 Underwood or my Plainfield reproduction. Lots of FTF with both carbines. Neither has ever had any problems with surplus so it's probably not due to weak springs.
With Federal SR primers they are 100% reliable and I haven't had any problems with slamfires.
 

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I had the problem of the sides of some primers remaining in the primer pocket with some once-fired USGI Remington 7.62x51 brass I bought. For whatever reason, the primers cold soldered themselves to the primer pocket walls. I ended up tossing the cases in which this happened, as it was more trouble than it was worth. Also, FWIW, the only USGI .30 Carbine brass that I have found to have crimped in primers are those with WCC and WRA headstamps. And, I don't recommend the CCI #41 primers; standard SRP's work just fine with the .30 Carbine.

Don
 
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If the primer sides are stuck in the primer pocket you will have one heck of a time getting that out--I don't care what kind of reamer you have:)

Smokeyloads
 
If the primer sides are stuck in the primer pocket you will have one heck of a time getting that out--I don't care what kind of reamer you have:)

Smokeyloads

they have probably "melded" together as one.

For 150 pieces of brass from 1940 I know what I would do with them;)
 
I had some old military brass in that age bracket that had been submerged in water and mud for some years before I got them have the same thing happen. I tried the use a thin needle to 45* punch to drive between the primer and pocket to collapse the wall it worked well after I ground one side to match the primer pocket---sort of like a rounded chisel. Just don't pound too hard and hurt the brass. Just tap in some and twist the point gently towards the center, the brass ring will collapse easily.
 
tickfarm

It doesn't look like it in the pic, but that .45 case spent the last 20-odd years in a friends leaky old barn. My guess is that the corrosion that was all over the surface before I cleaned it moved down into the interstices between the case and primer. The resulting oxidation caused the metal to "weld" together.

(An hour later...)
Well, that guess was WRONG!

I decided to try and come up with a way to remove those "primer walls" and help you get those cases into usable condition while also satisfying my curiosity as to why this particular .45 primer came apart, while over 800 others, stored under the same conditions, didn't.

I decided to try the punch that I use for decapping really stubborn Berdan primers. First I ran a die (in this case a .308 trim die, but anything that the case will fit tightly into will work, but DON'T USE A CARBIDE SIZING DIE) into the press from the bottom of the threaded portion up until it protrudes from the top of the press.
Then push the case mouth into the die so that it fits tightly and use a small hammer to drive the tip of your punch into the inside of the primer wall. You don't want to put it in so far that you go through the primer wall and into the side of the primer pocket, cause then you're likely to get gas leakage that'll trash your bolt face.
After you've got a good "bite" in the primer, use your hammer to tap down on the side of your punch using the case head as a fulcrum to lift one side of the primer out.
Once it starts to move, the job is essentially done and the primer will pop out easily.

The best way I've found for removing the case that's now jammed in the die is to use a 4 inch deck screw with the point rounded off and the head ground to fit a .223 shellholder. Just push down on the handle of the press and the screw pushes the case out easily.

Since I can usually decap about three Aussie Footscray (the most heavily crimped primers I've ever encountered) 7.62x51 Berdan primers a minute, you can probably do 6 or even 8 of your .30 Carbine primer "doughnuts" per minute once you get the hang of it. It literally took two light taps on the head of the punch and two on the side and it was done (at least it woulda been if I hadn't been trying to get pics)

Once I got it removed, looking at the outside wall of the primer "doughnut" made me pretty much give up on the idea of "corrosion welding" as the cause of this problem since the nickel plating is as smooth as a baby's behind and the walls of the primer pocket are no worse than the pockets that deprimed normally.

I now have absolutely no idea why this particular primer came apart like that and none of the other 800 odd primers did, especially when you consider that a couple hundred of 'em were over 50 years old, not nickel plated AND were crimped in!

Does anyone out there have a better theory than my original "corrosion welding"?

Don't you just hate it when a beautiful theory like that gets mugged and beaten to death by a gang of facts!

There are a lot of cases that I wouldn't consider being worth the effort to salvage, but I think .30 Carbine is probably worth it. I know that I don't find 'em laying around very often on the ranges I go to.

If you run into any problems or need help on exactly how to grind the punch, feel free to shoot me a PM and I'll try to talk you through it.

I'd advise against trying to drive anything between the primer and case, it doesn't take much of a scratch to allow blow by when you've got 40 thousand PSI trying to find its way out.

And seriously, unless you've successfully used CCI #41's in your Carbine previously, try a more easily ignited primer or the question in your next thread is gonna be "Is it safe to decap live primers?" :D
 

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