private party transaction liability?

[marklbucla]

I've heard about gun manufacturers being sued because their guns were used in crimes, and maybe even gunshops being sued as well. Have there been any cases where a person doing a fully legit private party was ever in legal troubles because the gun transferred was used to commit a crime? Maybe a civil lawsuit?

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

I have wondered the same thing. I gave a friend a pistol that he wanted to buy but he is very generous with his bass boat, hunting leases etc. He even gave me a nice leupold scope when he upgraded his rifle to a vari-x III. I know this guy is a legal firearms owner but wondered if I could be held responsible if anything should happen. He said he wanted it because he sometimes works nights and his wife and children would be at home alone. I did take them all out to shoot it (even the kids) and explain it's safe and proper operation. He was previously only a hunter with no desire to own a handgun.

 

[BerettaNut92]

I havent heard of it happening myself provided the PPT was kosher. The folks who chase Bushmaster, etc. are chasing the money and not really in the interest in pursuing justice.

 

[FPrice]

There is a recent post here about an individual in Maryland (?) who had owned several handguns which were tied to various crimes and/or illegal possession by other people. He is being investigated for how these firearms left his possession. But he is also being investigated for some other possible illegal activities. The way the article was worded seemed to insinuate that he may have made some "strawman" purchases, but that could be a bit speculative. I think the key was that more than a few of his former handguns were found in these situations.

While this is not to be construed as legal advice, if you follow any rules which may exist in your state about the private sale of firearms and can show that both you and the seller were legal to possess said firearms, I think you would be relatively safe.

 

[FPrice]

Here is the post I was referencing.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51648

 

[Cosmoline]

For my own protection, I always use consignment with FFL's to sell firearms to strangers. That way I have a strong argument that I used the system to ensure that a background check was done. It isn't proof of due care, but it is evidence of due care. And I'd rather have that than nothing.


Here's the potential liabiliy. You sell firearm to shooter for cash, who then turns and uses it on a victim. All the victim needs to do is show that but for your failure to exercise due care in selling a firearm to the shooter, the victim would not have been harmed. My biggest concern is unknowlingly selling to a felon, or something which could be caught on a background check. If the guy has a clean record and just goes bonkers, it's going to be much harder to say you should have done something differently.

 

[clubsoda22]

In PA there is a potential for liability if all the paperwork is not done. Under PA law private transfers of handguns must go through a FFL or the county sheriff. If you don't and the gun is used in a crime, you are liable and criminal. The only exception is transferrs between spouses or parent and child, but even then the transferee must be elegible to possess a handgun. This is how I, at 18, have come to own all of my handguns. My father buys them then gives them to me as a gift.

Longarms are a different story, you don't need to go through the sheriff or FFL, but, it is still illegal to provide an inelegible person with a firearm, so play it safe, or stick to family/friends/those who have been officially vouched for (CWP holders/active police)

 

[marklbucla]

By "fully legit", I meant that assuming that one is going through all the proper channels (paperwork, FFL, legal recipient, serial numbers still there, etc.).

I have chosen to take losses and sell to the local gunshop instead of directly to another person because I'm afraid that I may be sued in the same way that a gun or ammo manufacturer could be, should it be used in a crime. I don't know if I'm being paranoid, but given that I live in Los Angeles, I don't think I really am.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything definitive about this issue, as to whether or not it's ever come up before.

 

[Skibane]

Personally, my respect for the 2nd far outweighs my fear of lawyers.

 

[manwithoutahome]

I wonder if you could be held responsible if you sold a car and the person used it to run someone over? Or used it in a bank holdup? The same goes if you sell a pitchfork and the person goes nuts and stabs a bunch of kids with it?

You never know I guess.

M

 

[JohnBT]

"I wonder if you could be held responsible if you sold a car and the person used it to run someone over?"

Sure, if they were drunk or high or something when you gave them the keys.

I don't sell my guns to just anyone and choose not to worry about it any more than I worry about the cars and power tools I've sold. There're no records of the gun transactions.

JT