Problem seating 30-06 bullets properly

[bison]

I just found out that some of the bullets in 30-06 rounds that I'd loaded are easily loosened in the round. It appears as though they are seated with the mouth of the brass just barely below the cannelure. If the round is jarred or if I just push the bullet hard into the brass there's a "click" and the bullet shifts in a bit to where it rotates fairly freely inside the brass (though it won't fall out). I can't imagine that this is right! Here's the details:

Mixed brass, all full length sized and trimmed (I use Lee equipment)
165g Sierra Gameking spitzer bullets
COL is 3.232"

I can only guess that my COL is too short, but per Lee manual it could be as short as 3.215"

Picture shows round as loaded on left, with round after pushing the bullet in on right.

Thanks!

 

[Tophernj]

I'm sure someone on here will chime in that knows a LOT more than me, however maybe adjust your die to get a bit more crimp on the case neck?

C

 

[solvability]

Does not sound like your case neck was resized or your brass is utterly worn out - crimp is really not needed to prevent routine setback.

 

[witchhunter]

You said mixed headstamp brass, are they all loose or a certain brand? Did this just start happening, is this anew die set? Try resizing some in a FL die very slowly, leave it in the die for a 3 count. You might need to anneal necks to get them to size correctly.

 

[243winxb]

Measure the expander. It should be about .306" to not larger than .307"

 

[bainter1212]

I had this issue, but only with Federal brass and only when using the 40 yr old Herters die set that I inherited. I don't know what the deal is with the Federal brass (I suspect it is just a bit cheaper/thinner than other brass) but a new die set solved the issue. No more setback.

 

[hartcreek]

It looks to me like you simply misses the cannalure wher you seated the bullets and then did not crimp enough.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I just found out that some of the bullets in 30-06 rounds that I'd loaded are easily loosened in the round. It appears as though they are seated with the mouth of the brass just barely below the cannelure. If the round is jarred or if I just push the bullet hard into the brass there's a "click" and the bullet shifts in a bit to where it rotates fairly freely inside the brass (though it won't fall out). I can't imagine that this is right! Here's the details:

Mixed brass, all full length sized and trimmed (I use Lee equipment)
165g Sierra Gameking spitzer bullets
COL is 3.232"

I can only guess that my COL is too short, but per Lee manual it could be as short as 3.215"

Picture shows round as loaded on left, with round after pushing the bullet in on right.

Thanks!

Just a note, two one-hundredths of an inch is an extremely small a difference, it's not two-tenths of an inch. That would not cause a bullet to be that loose in the case.

Crimp, especially in rifle cases does not hold the bullet, neck tension does. It sounds like you are not completely resizing the neck of the case. You might have to readjust the die to be sure you compensate for the flex of the press. (I hope I explained that well enough)

 

[Reloadron]

Sierra on the 30-06 Springfield cartridge:

Trim-to-Length 2.485

.308 diameter 165 grain Spitzer BT and 165 grain HPBT both suggest a cartridge OAL of 3.340". Neither bullet has a cannelure.

That brings us around to what 243winxb mentions:

Measure the expander. It should be about .306" to not larger than .307"

If the expander is correct my guess would be the brass. That or the bullets are undersize which I really doubt.

Ron

 

[burrhead]

Crimping won't prevent set back. Generally there's no reason to crimp rifle rounds and can, in fact, cause problems by increasing the neck diameter below the mouth. You don't have enough neck tension. Measure the ID of the case mouth after resizing. It should be about .003 less than the bullet diameter.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Hi,

that bullet has a cannelure ........ 165gr. Gamekings do not to the best of my knowledge, and according to their catalogue. So firstly what bullet do you have, from the shape it appears to be a Hornady?

Secondly what you appear to have done is to size only the first 1/16" which give the appearance of a roll crimp, this sized portion is sufficient to hold the bullet until it is jarred, then the bullet falls back and the "crimp" now locates in the cannelure which is why the bullet remains loose but does not fall back into the case.

Thirdly COL has nothing to do with your problem.

 

[winchester1886]

I've been loading 30-06 rounds for 24 years or so and when My dies are adjusted correctly I can put the tip of the bullet against by bench and push it in toward the bench without the bullet moving. Most of the time I use a Lee factory crimp die on all my rifle reloads, but that is just me.

 

[Bexar]

It looks like that case on the top has been turned. Is the neck thick enough to be squeezed by the resizing die enough to make the ID of case neck to specs?

I've got several of that load but no crimp I'll check mine.

 

[Bexar]

OK...mine have a

COL of 3.287
LC 72 brass....first loading
Powder is loose in loaded case and powder is not compressed.
Turned neck and throats
Very slight almost imperceptible crimp
loaded 03/30/03
RCBS standard over the counter dies

Bullets are right and tight,

Ooops...sorry...I see your's are Sierras...mine are Hornadys.

 

[gamestalker]

Your problem has nothing to do with the oal. What is happening is you have your seating die adjusted too far down and it's crimping the case mouth, or too much if you intend to crimp. It isn't at all necessary, nor considered a popular manner for seating bullets intended for a single shot or bolt action, not even a production AL for hunting needs a crimp. the amount of crimp you are applying is actually causing the mouth to buckle out, thus it creates a spindle effect, in which the bullet can be spun, although it can't be usually be pulled up, or pushed in all the way in, it can cause issues with accuracy and even chamber fit problems.

Put a resized empty piece of brass in the shell holder, run the ram to full extension, thread the seating die in until you feel it contact the case mouth, now back it out 1 - 1-1/2 turns and lock it down. Now put a primed and powdered case in the shell holder, back the seating stem out most of the way, place a bullet on the mouth, run the ram to full extension, begin threading the seating stem down until it makes contact with the bullet. Back the ram down, thread the seating stem down some, run the ram to full extension again. Continue repeating this procedure until the bullets are at the oal you are seeking. Done.

GS

 

[USSR]

You didn't really need to tell us you used Lee dies; whenever this happens, it always involves Lee sizing dies.

Don

 

[Andrew Leigh]

To be sure ye must be jesting sire?

 

[Reloadron]

You didn't really need to tell us you used Lee dies; whenever this happens, it always involves Lee sizing dies.

Don

Thank you Don for morning coffee through the nose.

Ron

 

[USSR]

To be sure ye must be jesting sire?

If you are referring to what I said, no, I am not jesting. Go back and look at all the threads concerning lack of neck tension. The one thing in common; Lee sizing dies.

Don

 

[mtrmn]

If your expander is to large in diameter, then you will not have enough neck tension. IF IT IS TOO LARGE, then you can remove the decapper stem from your die and chuck it into a drill. Use fine sandpaper to polish it down and measure frequently to keep from removing too much material. You will need a good micrometer or a GOOD dial caliper to measure with.

 

[bison]

Thanks for all of the input. I will do some research in the next couple of days and update what I find. Much appreciated.

 

[bison]

OK - I figured it out - it's definitely a COL problem. First - Andrew you were right… the bullet is a Hornady Interlock SP, not a Sierra. My bad on that for sure, I'd used the wrong bullets when I loaded the round.

I checked all the setup items that people had noted: Expander die is .307-.308, case mouth is .305 after resizing, trimmed length is 2.485, seating die is set correctly (was 1 1/2 turns out, I set it at 1 1/4). No crimp. Brass is mixed headstamps and once-fired.

I backed out the setting die and set a round with the Hornady bullet to 3.31" (arbitrarily) and could barely budge the bullet pressing it hard into my bench. Same if I loaded the Sierra to 3.232" as I'd originally intended. So I guess I'd need a COL > 3.232" for the Hornady - any suggestions?

More importantly, I'd like to reload the rounds with the intended Sierra bullets. Is there any shortcut to completely starting over (unloading the rounds, removing primers, resizing, etc)? Can I just pull the bullets then reload the powder and bullets without resizing?

 

[Bexar]

OK - I figured it out - it's definitely a COL problem. First - Andrew you were right… the bullet is a Hornady Interlock SP, not a Sierra. My bad on that for sure, I'd used the wrong bullets when I loaded the round.

I checked all the setup items that people had noted: Expander die is .307-.308, case mouth is .305 after resizing, trimmed length is 2.485, seating die is set correctly (was 1 1/2 turns out, I set it at 1 1/4). No crimp. Brass is mixed headstamps and once-fired.

I backed out the setting die and set a round with the Hornady bullet to 3.31" (arbitrarily) and could barely budge the bullet pressing it hard into my bench. Same if I loaded the Sierra to 3.232" as I'd originally intended. So I guess I'd need a COL > 3.232" for the Hornady - any suggestions?

More importantly, I'd like to reload the rounds with the intended Sierra bullets. Is there any shortcut to completely starting over (unloading the rounds, removing primers, resizing, etc)? Can I just pull the bullets then reload the powder and bullets without resizing?

I'm glad they turned out to be Hornadys. I looked at your photo and my rounds looked exactly the same. That black hole in my brain just shrank back a little. It's great to hear you got your load seating resolved...I love stories with happy endings.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Are you trying to tell us changing the COAL to 3.310" from 3.232" prevented loose neck tension? I'm sorry but that is very hard to accept. Pulling the bullet forward only 0.078" will have no effect on the neck. Something other than seating depth, especially less than 78/1000", it just can't be... You can push the bullet completely into the case and it would not change the neck tension. (minus the powder of course so the bullet will drop)

 

[gamestalker]

I was just wondering the same thing as AA, oal isn't going to alter neck tension.

As for reusing the brass, under normal circumstances I would say you could easily get away with just re-seating the bullets. But considering everything about this problem points to a preexisting neck tension issue, which BTW is likely caused by either improper resizing die adjustment, or neck tension being diminished by an improperly adjusted seating die. Either of those conditions requires resizing the necks to address, and correrct the problem.

Also, even if you accidentally used the wrong bullet, Sierra or Hornady or what ever, it doesn't matter, that would not have any impact on neck tension provided they are a .308" bullet. But if they are two different weights, this could present another more serious issue, regarding powder charges, and resulting pressures.

The ex pander button on the resizing die shoulder be a consistent measurement, not .307"-.308". It should definitely measure something less than .308" though, or it would be over expanding, in which case ID would be too large to produce adequate neck tension.

Slow down and take a closer look at how you are proceeding with this. Some things you've mentioned raise concerns, such as unintentionally and accidentally loading the wrong bullet, as you stated. You didn't mention the weight difference, if any, between the Sierra and the Hornady, but this starts to indeed raise my eye brows a bit.

GS