Problem with flaring Lee Powder through Die

[RMECCA06]

Hi all Im hoping I can get some help on an issue Im having. Im new to reloading and I just purchased a Lee Loadmaster .45 ACP "kit".

The problem:
Im using the Powder through die with the powder measure auto disc on top. I have the die adjusted all the way down to touching the shell plate and I am getting no flare at all and the auto disc is not traveling the entire distance to completly cover the powder drop hole. I cant seat a bullet due to there being no flare at all on the necks.

I feel like the powder drop insert might be for a differnt caliber?

Here are a few pics:

This pic is with the ram all the way down and the expander die adjusted all the way down touching the shell plate; as you can see the disc does not travel all the way to the end to cover the drop chute:


I think this might be the wrong powder drop insert any insight??


Uhh not good:

 

[General Tso]

I've had the same problem with 9mm. I found that the case wasn't perfectly centered in the shellholder. I actually held it in place with my hand afterwards.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[wild willy]

Call Lee I had the exact same problem with a .357 expander several years ago it was too small

 

[Quoheleth]

Have you tried screwing the die down another 1/2 - 3/4 turn past that initial contact point? I'm thinking I have to do that for my 9mm die and it works just fine.

Q

 

[RMECCA06]

thanks for the replies, Im going to call Lee tomorrow, as far as screwing the die down further, I think that is just a band aid considering then I could not go through the full stroke and possibly not let the other dies work properly

 

[Lost Sheep]

Measure the expander

Welcome to the forum and thanks for asking our advice.

With the die apart, take a fired, unsized cartridge case and a fired and sized cartridge case and manually try to bell the case mouth. You won't be able to as fingers are not strong enough, but this is just to see if the expander is the right size and/or shape. Post a picture if you like. Your pictures are excellent.

If both go all the way up to the flat shoulder, your expander plug is too small as wild willy suggests. Call Lee for a replacement and apology.

If they do not go all the way up to the flat, then my first thought upon reading your post is probably correct. The expander die is not properly adjusted.

Read the directions that came with the dies. Lee as a pretty bad reputation for writing directions, so you have to REALLY think about them. Not as bad as IRS forms, but bad enough.

Here's how I do mine.
First, empty the powder hopper (or if using the Pro Auto-disk, turn off the powder flow)

1) Back the die all the way out of its station, so you KNOW it is 'way too high.

2) Run the ram (with a sized case in place in the shellholder) all the way up.

3) Screw the die all the way down until you feel the expander entering the case.

4) Lower the ram. Examine the case mouth. Can you see or feel a case mouth bell? Can you start a bullet seating? (At first, the answer is surely "No".) Screw the die in a little bit. (Lots at first. You will figure out when to start using smaller increments.)

5) Run the ram (with the same case in place in the shellholder) all the way up.

6) Lower the ram. Examine the case mouth. When you can start a bullet into the case by hand easily (1/32" to 1/16" or so) you have got it adjusted. If not, repeat steps 4 and 5 until you do.

At this point, with the ram all the way up, look straight down through the powder measure. You should see that the disk is fully in the "powder dropping" position.

Let us know how that works, please. Good luck.

Lost Sheep

P.S. If you manage to run the brass all the way up to that sharply tapered area, you will not reuse that brass more than once before you get case-mouth splits.

 

[Quoheleth]

Screwing an individual die will do nothing to the other dies' performance.

As was said, Lee's instructions are not always the best. Sometimes you have to use them as guidelines or do what you've done here - ask real-world users how they accomplish the same task. Lostsheep did a nice job, above.

If it is as you say, a bandaid, the nice thing about Lee is you can afford the bandaids!

Q

 

[RMECCA06]

Lost sheep,
thanks, I matched up both a sized and unsized brass to the expander and they both just sit on the flat area of the expander and i feel that if you put enough pressure on the case it wouldnt expand but more likely crush the mouth of the brass.

I just adjusted the die as far down as possible and there is no flare at all on the cases and the measure disc still doesnt move far enough to cover the drop hole.

It must be the wrong insert. Thanks to everyone that relied again for all the help.

I will update when i solve the issue

 

[243winxb]

I matched up both a sized and unsized brass to the expander and they both just sit on the flat area of the expander

It should measure about .450" So the expander is undersize. Or wrong one. From Lee's link below. > Powder through expander die adjustment

The quickest and most accurate way to set this die is to put the shell holder or shell plate at the top of the stroke and turn the die in until the bottom of it touches the shell holder or shell plate. At that point, back it out a half turn which should set the die to begin giving you the proper flare to the case mouth.

It is important that when attaching a powder measure to the die, that it be tightened so that the expander plug cannot move up into the die defeating the purpose of setting it in this fashion.

 

[Walkalong]

Hope this helps. Measure the appropriate spots to ensure you have the right expander plug.

 

[RMECCA06]

Walkalong thank you for the insight, I definatly have the wrong expander, I was under the assumption the tappered area that I have a yellow arrow in the picture was where the brass was flared because there is soo much space between the brass and the expander. :banghead:

I think the expander i have is for a .40 ....

I appreciate the help, thanks again!!!

 

[helg]

I concur with advices above that the flaring tube goes too deep into a shell, and case mouth becomes deformed by the tube' shoulder. I am getting similar looking shells when the expander goes too deep.

In my Lee 45ACP flaring tube diameter just before the flat area, where white arrow points to, is .468". If yours is smaller then you have wrong tube.

 

[GCBurner]

Walkalong thank you for the insight, I definatly have the wrong expander, I was under the assumption the tappered area that I have a yellow arrow in the picture was where the brass was flared because there is soo much space between the brass and the expander. :banghead:

I think the expander i have is for a .40 ....

I appreciate the help, thanks again!!!

Looking at the size of the case mouth next to the expander in the picture, I think it might be a .40 intead of a .45, too. One reloading tool that comes in handy on occasions like this is a good dial or micrometer caliper, accurate to 0.001 inch.

 

[PapaG]

Had this happen with two different Lee expander dies.
Both had the wrong expander. Called Lee, new expander, end of problem.
Don't screw down below contact point.

 

[RMECCA06]

I called up Lee Precision yesterday, after about 25 phone calls (always busy), I got a lady on the phone and was more than happy to send me the correct expander, hopefuly it gets here soon, really wanted to hit the range this weekend with my own loads

 

[1KPerDay]

Threads like this make me paranoid to try my new Lee classic turret... I'm not sure I'd even know what was wrong if I had the wrong expander. This is like the third thread this month with lee including the wrong die or wrong component in a die set.

 

[mcdonl]

Threads like this make me paranoid to try my new Lee classic turret... I'm not sure I'd even know what was wrong if I had the wrong expander. This is like the third thread this month with lee including the wrong die or wrong component in a die set.

Jump in 1K... the water is fine! These things happen, and you may have an issue or like me you may have none... either way the best way to find out is to DO IT!!

 

[MrOldLude]

Threads like this make me paranoid to try my new Lee classic turret... I'm not sure I'd even know what was wrong if I had the wrong expander. This is like the third thread this month with lee including the wrong die or wrong component in a die set.

3 in a month. So what? Of the hundreds of dies they sell every month, surely there are a few bad ones. No manufacturer is immune from the occasional hiccup. Even Dillon. Where it counts is when a manufacturer is willing to stand behind their products and make it right. And Lee is.

But if you're still worried, I'll gladly pay shipping to take the turret off your hands.

 

[1KPerDay]

I'm a-fixin' to jump... just trying to figure out where to mount the press right now. Hope I don't blow myself up...

 

[Hondo 60]

This is like the third thread this month with lee including the wrong die or wrong component in a die set.

While that's true, when you sell millions ...
I'd be willing to bet they have no more problems than any other die mfg.
It's just that Lee sells more.
And I'd bet Avg Joe Reloader wouldn't post if he spent tons extra $$ on a "better" brand & had the same issue.

 

[RMECCA06]

Fixed problem!

Ok so i contacted Lee on Monday, and I recieved a brand new die for free on friday... here is the difference in the expanders. Correct expander is obviously on the right

 

[Griz44]

I have quit using the expander on the powder drop method. Get a flaring die and mount it over the primer station. It puts a touch of flare on the case mouth only. The neck will stay much tighter on the bullet when seating, the bullet will insert much easier without cutting or shaving.
FLARING DIE

 

[wingman]

I suggest to all new reloader's start slow use manual mode(depending on equipment) at first never load more then 50 rounds of a given caliber, I know its a hassle if your very far from a range but take along a box of commerical so if you loaded a bad batch it won't ruin your day. I started over 40 years ago and had many rejects.

 

[Walkalong]

I have quit using the expander on the powder drop method.

I never have with my LNL. I use a regular expander die in station two as well. I do not use the LNL powder measure or linkage. I use a Redding.

 

[k4swb]

I do not use the LNL powder measure or linkage. I use a Redding.

Is this automated or do you manually activate the Redding?