Problems with 5906 FTF

[novalty]

Hello,

Finally got to fire my new 5906 that I got from CDNN a couple months ago, and had an extremely high amount of failures to fire with a 100 round box of WWB. The gun was thoroughly cleaned, completely stripped and sprayed with Brake Clean, oiled, and slide greased. It appeared that on the ammo that FTF, that there was no firing-pin mark on the bullet. The FTF seem to decrease as I ran more ammo through it, ruled out the ammo as my friend fired the unfired cases from my 5906 through his S&W Sigma series without a problem. Suprised as the S&W 459 I had, never had a problem with any ammo I put through it, however, the 5906 when it did fire, was considerably more accurate at the 7-10 yards I have been practicing at. Hoping someone might have a suggestions as to why the FTF might be occuring. Otherwise will be calling S&W this week.

Paul

 

[ugaarguy]

Did you clean and lube the mainspring (hammer spring)? Did you get excessive oil or grease into the firing pin channel and/or magazine disconnect mechanism?

 

[clang]

If FTF means failure to fire - a gunked up firing pin channel is a good place to look first.

If FTF is failure to feed - have you tried more than one mag?

 

[KONY]

Just send it to S&W. Will probably be back to you fixed in less than 2 weeks.

 

[fastbolt]

When I used to see this happen with our S&W service pistols, more often than not it turned out someone had been cleaning their pistol improperly, which caused accumulated contamination of the firing pin channel with excessive amounts of solvent/CLP. It could run into the space, but not out, and as it remained there it could slowly become thickened by fouling turning into heavy gunk. I've seen some firing pin springs which couldn't compress because of the heavy fouling within the coils of the spring.

A broken firing pin spring creating interference with the firing pin's freedom of movement, a broken/damaged firing pin or damaged main spring could also be involved.

Just my thoughts, since I couldn't know what's happening with your particular pistol unless I examined it.

 

[rocinante]

I have a 915 which AFAIK is basically the same design. I have run everything through it and not had one failure. It is my go to pistol for that reason.

 

[aquapong]

If you are having light strikes, the first things I would check is 1. dirty firing pin channel 2. hammer spring is worn out.

 

[novalty]

Yeah the FTF is Failure-to-fire, it seemed with the first couple clips to be about 7 or 8 rounds of the 15 round clip. The ftf bullets didn't seem to have any striker mark on them from the firing-pin, and the cases it did fire were hit strong just off center. After a few magazines the FTF seem to decrease, and generally it would fire the first bullet from the magazine and not the second, I did start loading on 14 instead of 15 in the mags, and my FTF seem to decrease to 3 or 4 per mag.

The gun had been completely disassembled before firing, sprayed with brake clean to remove any cosmoleen?, all parts lightly oiled and assembled, the only thing I did different than with past guns is put some Shooter's Choice grease on the rails. I will give it a thorough cleaning, especially in the firing pin housing, as everything seems to be pointing to that as my main area of malfunction.

Called S&W yesterday, but the lady I spoke with wasn't the most customer service oriented and didn't want to forward me to someone in the repair/tech department. Told her it was a leftover gun from CDNN unfired and NIB, and she proceed to tell me it was considered used in their book as they haven't made it in a long time, and to send it to them and they would get back to me with a quote on repair costs--despite me registering the gun for the lifetime warranty with them.

Figured, the problem is more than likely a very minor one, but need to get it cured, as it is going to be my nightstand gun. Very impressed with the 3 inch or so groups, from 7-10 yards. Shoot from that range as that would be the longest distance of open space in my house. Plan on picking up some Crimson Trace Lasergrips next month, as I don't currently have night-sites, but seems to have a natural aim, and fits my hand very well.

Paul

 

[aquapong]

Have you tried several types of ammo? The off center firing pin marks could mean that it is firing out of battery...which could be a problem with the overall length of the rounds.

 

[fastbolt]

Sent you a PM.

 

[fastbolt]

BTW, one of the problems with using an aerosol cleaning chemical (aside from any potential issues of using something inappropriate for a gun) is the potential for condensation to form on the metal, including inside the working parts where you can't easily get rid of it when just field stripping the gun. Also, sometimes a forceful jet of liquid may introduce "cleaned away" fouling and debris down inside the gun's mechanism where it can't easily run out, afterward.

 

[novalty]

Well after taking some appreciated advice from another forum member. I cleaned my 5906 and used air compressor to blow out some excess oil that had gotten in the firin pin hole. Unfortunately, after shooting it yesterday the Failure-to-Fire problem still exists. I loaded my 15 round clips with only 14bullets each to make sure their was any feeding problems. Here is the count of FTF with about a half box of WWB. The first shot of every clip fired
First Clip: 6 FTF sporadically
Second Clip: 5 FTF sporadically
Third Clip: 4 FTF sporadically (First 4 bullet fired and were some of the FTF bullet above)
Forth Clip: Only load 10 rounds, had 3 FTF
Fifth Clip: Only loaded 4 rounds, had 2 FTF

I did end up shooting almost all the FTF rounds . Saved 3 of the FTF and they don't appear to have any marketings on or around the primer to indicate and signs of strike.

Called S&W and the Customer Service guy was great this time. Explained the entire situation and he said he believed their was an issue with the firing pin itself. So they are sending a pre-paid box to have the gun shipped back. Glad that my warranty is going to be covered since it was a left over but new gun from CDNN, but a little upset that I have to ship it to be fixed.

 

[GZOh]

I wouldn't be upset... you're getting a first-hand experience of S&W Customer Service... which is outstanding!!
I also have a 5906 (from CDNN) about a year old... A work horse, not one FTF or FTE (1000+rnds)... Any gun can have a problem. The test is always the company that stands behind it... and S&W is tops. They'll make it right!

 

[GRIZ22]

When I used to see this happen with our S&W service pistols, more often than not it turned out someone had been cleaning their pistol improperly, which caused accumulated contamination of the firing pin channel with excessive amounts of solvent/CLP. It could run into the space, but not out, and as it remained there it could slowly become thickened by fouling turning into heavy gunk. I've seen some firing pin springs which couldn't compress because of the heavy fouling within the coils of the spring.


This was a the main problem my agency had with 6906s. You can't flush the crap out with Gunscrubber. It must be disassembled to clean properly. I have seen this stuff build up so much that the firing pin locked forward.

 

[fastbolt]

This was a the main problem my agency had with 6906s. You can't flush the crap out with Gunscrubber. It must be disassembled to clean properly. I have seen this stuff build up so much that the firing pin locked forward.

Yep, once it's accumulated inside the channel the safety assembly has to be removed in order to remove the firing pin & spring so the area can be cleaned out. You just can't blow it out.

At least it's easier to disassemble that part of the slide than some other makes. No spring or solid pins to be driven out and replaced, or pins which have to be staked back in place.

Easier to just not use improper cleaning methods which would allow it to accumulate in the first place, though.

I'm confident S&W will correct the problem with the 5906. One of the nice things about their warranty support.

Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[novalty]

I'm sure the problem that I have been experiencing is due to my lack of knowledge on cleaning a semi-auto. Grew up just cleaning rifles and revolvers. I use Hoppes 9 in a bottle, Rem Oil aerosol, and Shooter's Choice gun grease for the slide. I assumed, which you know what that means, and thought if a little Rem Oil was sprayed around the firing pin housing, it would help to lubricate and protect against corrosion. I am suprised though at how fast it Failed-to-Fire, I believe on the 2 round ever attempted in the gun. Seems like that would lean toward hydrolock, instead of an excess build up of fouling, if it is related to the cleaning. Otherwise, I would think it would be a damaged spring issue, as the shell casings that were fired were struck firm, and the ones that didn't go bang, didn't show any indication of a strike whatsoever. When I did pull the trigger on the cases that didn't fire, the trigger felt about the same except at the very end, where I felt a click but obviously no BANG. I followed TRB, but sometimes even the following shot would not fire. My friend and I could not identify any pattern to the FTF's.

Hopefully I will receive the package to ship to S&W in the mail shortly, and hopefully there aren't any hassle with shipping the firearm, both to and back from S&W. I have heard their turn-around time is very quick, so I'll probably have the gun back about the time my Crimson Trace lasergrips arrive for it.

 

[novalty]

Received my 5906 back from S&W today, along with a note stating they had replaced the firing pin spring and it passed inspection. I also notice their was a grip pin in the bottom of the grip, which wasn't there before. Hopefully will get to try it out soon to see how it shoots.

 

[Kor]

I also notice their was a grip pin in the bottom of the grip, which wasn't there before.

"Thar's yer problem" - the grip pin not only holds the grips on the frame, but it also is what the hammer spring compresses against when the hammer is cocked. Without that pin in place, the spring might have been just slack enough that it wouldn't propel the hammer forward hard enough to fire your ammo consistently or reliably.