Progressive or Turret

[Jenrick]

I've always been a fairly high volume shooter, and with the ammo prices these days reloading is definitely the way to go. I've been loading steadily on my Lee Challenger press for a while now, but any major jump in ammo consumption (match, extended practice, training class) really eats up time trying to produce enough ammo. I'm currently looking at going to either a turret or a progressive to satisfy my ammo production needs. I know the a progressive gives a much higher volume production, but I know they are more finicky.

Currently I need decent amounts of .38 spl, 9mm, .45 ACP, and 5.56. Powder is W231 in pistol and one of the IMR's (whatever is on sale and appropriate) in 5.56. Current volume is about 2-300 rds of each caliber every week, so between 800-1k rounds per month of each (hence why reloading is the only way I can afford to shoot as much as I do). I can produce that by putting in an hour a day or so everyday throughout the week on my single stage press, but any jump in consumption plays havoc. I just finished a class where we shot over 1K of 5.56 and 800 or so 9mm in 3 days. That took some work to get that all taken care of.

Can a progressive produce good training rifle ammo? If it can, is it a pain to get it to do so? I know a lot of people say that with rifle cases they deprime and/or resize off the progressive. If I'm going to mess with that I'm not sure it's worth having a progressive. Can a turret press produce pistol ammo in a timely enough manner to make it a viable alternative to a progressive?

If I go with a progressive, I'd like to keep it on the less expensive end as I know they are where the BIG money in reloading can be spent. Recommendations? As far as turrets go I can afford more of a middle of the line model, but is it worth it to go there? All the reviews I've ready on the Lee Classic Turret are good, and I haven't seen anything to make going up in price to a Dillon or the like worth it. What am I missing?

In short, if you need to load 1K a month of .38 spl, 9mm, .45 ACP, and 5.56 what press would you use and why?

I'm currently leaning towards a Lee Classic Turret, as I know it will function to produce all the calibers I need without having to muddle with things much. The production rates I've seen quoted for it appear to be in line with my shooting, requiring only a couple of hours a week to keep me in ammo. Does anyone see any major problems?

-Jenrick

 

[under_dawg]

I have the Lee Classic Turret. I bought it it kit from Cabela's in December of 07 for around $150. It came with the auto disk pro powder measure. I have loaded in the 2-3k range with it mostly in 357 mag. For the most part, the powder measure has been very accurate. Mine likes ball powders better than flake, but is very accurate with TrailBoss for some reason. When you find a powder that has a pretty wide load range and your disc cavity is throwing the charge almost in the middle, that's when you've hit paydirt. You can turn out bullets at great speed if you only weigh every 5th or 10th powder charge. That's the case for me using TrailBoss and a 158gr lead bullet for target and plinking shooting. When using some powders like H-110 and Win-296, I weigh every charge. These powders are great for magnum 44, and 357 loads but load range (depending on the source ie Hodgdon) is often 2-3gr or less. With these powders, if you reduce them too much you will stick a bullet in the barrel, if go too high it'll blow up your gun. I recently bought the adjustable charge bar, and the double disk kit for the pro-disk, but haven't tried out the charge bar yet. They should add a lot of adustability to the pro-disk.

I would the LCT would be ok for rifles depending of vmd of the powder you've chosen. The disks will only hold so much powder. I reload 30-30 and 308 with a kind of hybrid technique. I use the Lee auto-prime (hand held) to prime the cases, and the dipper / trickle method for the powder charge. I then seat the bullet and use the lfc die to crimp it. This allows me to complete an entire bullet one at the time.

Everyone has different reasons they got into reloading some are burning through a thousand rounds a month, some 200 or less. Some need volume/speed while others need high accuracy etc. Some like myself are in between. My teenage son shoots with me so I am very careful to make sure my loads are safe.

I've never tried other brands of presses / powder dispensers. They may be better for your type of reloading, but the LCT works great for my requirements and didn't break the bank.

 

[Floppy_D]

I load on a single stage and a progressive, and a shooting buddy of mine loads on a turret. We shoot around the same volume you do. My progressive is faster once I get it set up. The turret is still plenty fast, and changing calibers is much faster than changing calibers on a progressive. Given that you're loading for 4 calibers, take that into consideration.

You can make good rifle ammo on any of those presses. The notion that good rifle ammo has to be done on a single stage is silly. Properly prepped brass + consistent seating and powder charges = consistent ammo. As to prepping the brass, I deprime and resize on a single stage in batches, trim/chamfer in batches, and then feed it through the progressive without the depriming die in place. With a turret, you'll be playing the same game, unless you trim each piece right after you sized it.
All things considered, a turret is a great starting point. Faster than a single stage, harder to screw up on (you're watching one case at a time, not 4 or 5), and fast to change calibers. Figure 150+ rounds an hour (my friend gets more than that, but he has the turret down to an artform). I might get 400-500 on my Dillon, but that number drops when I start changing calibers and whatnot.

Couldn't hurt to shop used before you jump, I see reloading gear on craigslist and the trading post here, and presses are hard to wear out.

Best of luck to ya, Jenrick, I don't think you can go wrong.

 

[pmeisel]

My Lyman turret has served well for years... no desire to move to a progressive. But you shoot more than me, you might prefer it. The turret makes set up time virtually zero. I left one set of 357 dies in it untouched for over 10 years, while changing out rifle dies in other holes.

 

[loadedround]

Jenrick:
Your post should generate a lot of comments and opinions on which press to purchase, so I will not attempt to influence you; but to offer my experiences after many years of reloading and shooting. I have shot competitive pistol and CMP rifle for many years and originally started reloading with a single station press, advanced to a turret press and finally to a progressive press. I currently run two Dillon 550B presses, one set up for large primers and the other for small primers. I have complete die heads set up with powder measures for my most active calibers. These currently consist of 38's, 9's 40/10mm's 45ACP's, 223's and 308's. It takes me all of 10 minutes to change shell holders, load primer tubes, load powder and I'm up running. I usually load 250-300 rounds at a session and all my rounds are quality ammo, and just as good as anything loaded on a single stage or turret press and a hellva lot faster! As said at the beginning, JMHO!

 

[benzuncle]

Jenrick, you can load up to 200 rounds per hour on the Lee Classic Turret Press. The LCT is a semi-progressive press. It can also be used as a single stage by removing the auto index feature. As previously explained, you can swap out the turret/calibers on the LCT including the powder measure in 1 minute. I load 3 different calibers with my LCT and usually load right at 150 rounds per hour because it is my "other hobby" and I'm not as interested in full tilt boogie speed. If 150/200 rounds per hour can't get you where you need to go you will have to consider a progressive. Dillon is recognized by most as the Top O'the Line when it comes to progressives; you will obviously pay more for them. I opted for the LCT partially for that reason. Good luck to you in whichever way you choose to stimulate our sagging economy.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I went with the Lee 4-hole turret, I can load 150 rounds/hour, which is all I need. Its several hundred dollars cheaper too.

 

[Fourbits]

Like Redneck with a 40, I use a Lee 4-hole turret - about 150 rounds/hour. In spite of my bias for the Lee turret I think you need a progressive press for your volume of rounds. The Dillon seems to be the most popular.

 

[rfwobbly]

A different way of looking at this.....

I'm currently looking at going to either a turret or a progressive to satisfy my ammo production needs. I know the a progressive gives a much higher volume production, but I know they are more finicky.

Jenrick -

Maybe NOT depending on the brand of press you buy. I hate to open up this thread to "brand war", but IMHO press brand really IS the gist of your question. Lee presses are great. I've owned and used 4 of them. They are designed and built to serve the needs of the vast majority of the reloaders out there. I freely admit, in their price/performance slot not many other presses can match Lee presses.

However, at your present volume of ammo requirements, you can hardly be lumped in with the "vast majority" any longer. You have moved way past amateur shooter, into the league of professional shooter. And therein lies your answer.

Look at it this way. If you were driving a Toyota Corolla to work 15 miles, you'd have no qualms. But if your new job meant driving 100 miles, then your needs would drastically change simply due to the volume. It would clearly be time to move up in the price/quality level of your automobile because your mileage would have become a serious portion of your life. All of a sudden, features you used to scoff at become very, very important to have. Suddenly, paying a little more for your car makes far more sense. Follow?

In the same way, I believe your needs have simply out grown Lee presses.

Currently I need decent amounts of .38 spl, 9mm, .45 ACP, and 5.56.

Your needs center around pistol, which is where progressives shine. You'll cut your production time by 75%. 223 does go a little slower, but by using RCBS X-dies the usual "stop and trim" step can be avoided altogether. In this way you can truly progressively load 223 at very near pistol speeds.

Can a progressive produce good training rifle ammo?

YES. Don't confuse the ammo quality of loading fast on a Lee press with the ammo quality of loading on a high-end progressive press. The ammo quality may even be better than what you presently get, all with much less tinkering, fiddling, and headache.

If I go with a progressive, I'd like to keep it on the less expensive end as I know they are where the BIG money in reloading can be spent.

IMHO this is the wrong view of things. Allow me to explain.... Using the example of the car again, maybe the Corolla would get you to your new job in 100 minutes, whereas a Mercedes would get you there in 75. Now you have to slow down in rain and snow in the lightweight Corolla, but the heavier Mercedes with positraction drive always gets you there in 75 minutes.

Please put a cost on being able to spend at least 208 hours MORE with your family each year by spending a little more money on your car.

So: Do you go to work to drive, or do you go to work becasue you love your family? The extra price of a quality car starts to fade into the background very quickly when you answer that. In the same way, do you reload becasue you love to spend a significant portion of your time holed up in your reloading room, or do you reload becasue you love to get out and shoot? Exactly what is the goal?


Some things to think about, my friend. I hope this helps you.

 

[RustyFN]

I also load on a Lee CT. I load close to 200 in one hour or 500 rounds in three hours because I do a lot of double checking of the powder measure and OAL. That's at a comfortable pace. If I wanted to step it up a little I think I could get close to 600 in three hours, but I'm not in a hurry.
Rusty

 

[briangsxr600]

I felt that when I was looking at presses a couple years ago that they all were well built. I tried to look ahead and I knew that as time went on I would be shooting more and not less so I wanted decide to get the Dillon 550b. I can change calibers in about 4-6 min. I have different heads so the dies stay set all I have to do is adjust the powder. I can load 500-650 rounds an hour. I do use RCBS for most everything else but the press. Try to get something you will use for a long time and be happy with.

 

[RandyP]

I load on the LCT, their 5 hole turret Load-Master progressive sells at most online stores for under $230 as a kit that includes 1 set of dies (your choice of caliber) their perfect powder measure and a case feeder. It also has accessory items to customize the process, like a bullet feeder etc.

It ain't no Dillon, but it also costs considerably less $$$ and does produce safe, reliable ammo at a high volume count per hour. Caliber changes are also quite affordable for a spare turret and shell holder.

 

[lgbloader]

My gut says 550B but you could probably get by with a Lee Classic Turret.

LGB

 

[swiss7.5]

Using a single stage is a must for a beginner. I have one and have made a ton of ammo with it. I just recently upgraded to a progressive. They will both see a lot of use.
If I am making a suggestion I would say buy what you can afford but i would lean toward progressive. But you can't go wrong with either of those. GL and happy loading

 

[Shoney]

Jenrick

rfwobbly gave a good reply, but I'll attempt to answer a few other of your questions. The Lee CT is probably the biggest bang for the buck, and produces good serviceable ammo at a good rate.

I have the LNL AP, a 550, and have loaded extensively on a buddies 650. About a year ago the buddie and I started measuring the runout (concentricity) of the three presses. The LNL was the big winner, and even produced more concentric ammo than our single stage presses.

My buddy. after years of harrasment about blue is better, was so impressed that he sold his 650 and got the LNL AP.

When considering the number of changeovers you will need to do, the LNL will not only be superior, but it will do the changovers faster and less expensively. And with the 1000 bullet rebate, the LNL looks even better.

 

[showmebob]

After considering a turret press, I decided to go progressive. Doing the research told me that Dillon has a great following due to numbers sold but Hornady customers are every bit as happy with their LNL AP presses. I chose to save the $250 (after bullet rebate) and go with the Hornady. No regrets.
Choose what will meet your needs best and talk to folks owning all the brands you are considering first.
Good luck!

 

[Jenrick]

After reading all the replies and doing some looking I believe a progressive is where I need to look. Thanks for everyone's replies, and I'll be starting a separate thread soon on which progressive and what accessories.

-Jenrick