Proliferation of non-paper ARS 4-249 signs?

[Arizona_Mike]

In AZ, a "no guns" sign carries the same "reasonable request" legal force as "employees only" (misdemeanor trespass with degree depending on whether it is a "fenced commercial yard"--not even a weapon violation) except when the sign is posted at a liquor licensee. In this case there are very specific requirements (and the sanctions go up).

I previously posted about seeing a lot of non-compliant (mostly poor quality, not in color, or too small) attempts at 4-249 signs. Lately I have been seeing a lot of non-paper signs (that do not seem to conform to 4-229 (E)) that are actually quite fancy (plastic decals or even engraved plastic). I asked one poster of a plastic signs (a non-liquor licensee which raised entirely different questions) and (true or not) was told that it was provided by the City of Chandler!

4-229. Licenses; handguns; posting of notice

A. A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 may carry a concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following requirements:

1. Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and immediately adjacent to the liquor license posted on the licensed premises.

2. Contain a pictogram that shows a firearm within a red circle and a diagonal red line across the firearm.

3. Contain the words, "no firearms allowed pursuant to A.R.S. section 4-229".

B. A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer if the licensee has posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section.

C. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:

1. The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section before the violation.

2. Any one or more of the following apply:

(a) At the time of the violation the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section had fallen down.

(b) At the time of the violation the person was not a resident of this state.

(c) The licensee had posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section not more than thirty days before the violation.

D. The department of liquor licenses and control shall prepare the signs required by this section and make them available at no cost to licensees.

E. The signs required by this section shall be composed of block, capital letters printed in black on white laminated paper at a minimum weight of one hundred ten pound index. The lettering and pictogram shall consume a space at least six inches by nine inches. The letters comprising the words "no firearms allowed" shall be at least three-fourths of a vertical inch and all other letters shall be at least one-half of a vertical inch. Nothing shall prohibit a licensee from posting additional signs at one or more locations on the premises.

F. This section does not prohibit a person who possesses a handgun from entering the licensed premises for a limited time for the specific purpose of either:

1. Seeking emergency aid.

2. Determining whether a sign has been posted pursuant to subsection A of this section.

This is the "official" one:

So my question is am I reading (E) right (must be on paper) or am I missing something?

 

[vamo]

I wouldn't want to be the one arguing in court that I deserve to walk free because the sign was plastic and not paper.

 

[Art Eatman]

Me, I'd assume that plastic is the same as laminated paper in the eyes of the law. Some nits, I'll let them remain unpicked. They don't want my money? I don't want the hassle.

 

[barnbwt]

Wait, they seriously put a fancy race-gun on their official "no guns" sign?

I've often wondered if signage distribution might be a tactic of organizations, since few business owners would refuse unless they were RKBA supporters themselves; seems more effective than leafleting. It's a tactic we, unfortunately, cannot really expect to take advantage of ourselves ("Gun Owners Welcome" would not be well received by owners on the fence, in all likelihood)

TCB

 

[rdhood]

So my question is am I reading (E) right (must be on paper) or am I missing something?

IMHO, yes, this must be on 110lb index paper. There is no such thing (as far as I know) as 110lb index plastic.

section e is quite specific. Further, it needs to be almost the size of a sheet of standard paper (8x11), as the pictogram itself will be 6x9.

The lettering and pictogram shall consume a space at least six inches by nine inches.

So basically, if they want to keep guns out of the business, they need to post a BIG ugly sign in an obvious location. The little stickers just aren't going to cut it.

 

[lawson4]

Acccording to secion D, "The department of liquor licenses and control shall prepare the signs required by this section and make them available at no cost to licensees." If the dept doesn't make and supply the sign, is the sign invalid? Or can you buy/make your own sign as long as it meets the other specifications?

Rick

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I agree, it is right there in black and white (and red) except for all the xeroxed signs I see that have no red . . .

Some people jokingly refer to it as the no-race guns signs

Mike