Promo - Powder for the recession?

[LiveLife]

Back in April/May, I did some range testing with Promo in 9mm/40S&W/45ACP with promising results.

With economy continuing to slide, I have been suggesting to other reloaders to try this cheap powder. In case you are not familiar with Promo, it's a large flake shotgun powder many reloaders have used with Red Dot load data. It only comes in 8 lb container and currently the lowest priced powder ($82.60 at Powder Valley).

Being a large flake powder, it initially did not meter well in my new Pro Auto Disk and charges thrown varied 0.1-0.3 gr. After some trial and error, I found that my 15 year old Pro Auto Disk threw charges more consistently and only varied by 0.1 gr charge-to-charge average. Many suggested using Powder baffle, tapping the hopper to settle the powder, using the Lee adjustable charge bar or slightly loosening the thumb nuts. All in all, what the range tests showed was that even though the charges varies by 0.1-0.3 gr, shot groups stayed fairly consistent.

Various 9mm/40S&W loads (jacketed/plated/lead) were tested using Glock22/27 (factory barrels for jacketed/plated and Lone Wolf barrels for lead) and produced average shot groups of 1"-2" at 7-10 yards and 2"-3" at 15 yards. My brief initial testing of 45ACP loads did not do very well shot out of PT145 even though my W231/HP38 reference loads produced 1"-1.5" groups at 7-10-15 yards.

My new M&P45 with a trigger job has been producing 1.5"-2.0" shot groups at 20 yards with my reference load (200 gr LSWC and 5.0 gr W231/HP38), so I decided to test the Promo loads at 7-10-15 yards. Missouri Bullets 200 gr SWC were loaded with 3.8 gr and 4.0 gr of Promo at 1.25" OAL.

I started out with 4.0 gr load first which cycled the slide of 4.5" M&P45 reliably and ejected cases went behind me and to the right. Recoil was snappy but mild. Shot groups at 7-10 yards averaged 1"-2" with the best group measurement of 1.25" at 10 yards and 2.0" at 15 yards.

3.8 gr load also cycled the slide reliably but ejected the cases just to the right of my right foot. Recoil was snappy and light. Best 10 yard group was 1.75" and 3.0" at 15 yards.

Although Promo does not meter as well, I can certainly live with these shot groups. If you are pinching pennies, even the 3.8 gr will be more than good enough for plinking. Using the Handloading Cost Calculator, I get reloading cost range of around $5/50 depending on component source and cost. If anyone is feeling the financial pinch, Promo should provide some relief, even for 45ACP loads.

 

[rfwobbly]

Thanks for the tip. Can you tell us who makes Promo? I can't find it in the burn rate charts.

 

[LiveLife]

Promo is made by Alliant. I use Red Dot load data and work up from slightly below the starting load. It is a fast burning powder like Bullseye and I usually get reliable loads at mid range of load data.

 

[LiveLife]

Many posted that Promo is the old Red Dot without the red flakes. Alliant's website currently don't list load data for 9mm/40S&W but you'll find them in older manuals/brochures - another reason for having the paper manuals.

Alliant currently publishes load data for 12 pistol/revolver calibers. Here's load data for 38 Spl and 45ACP:

38 Special 158 gr LSWC OAL 1.44" Red Dot Max 3.4 gr (793 fps)
38 Special 148 gr HBWC OAL 1.155" Red Dot Max 3.0 gr (806 fps)

45 Auto 200 gr LSWC OAL 1.19" Red Dot Max 4.5 gr (831 fps)
45 Auto 230 gr LRN OAL 1.27" Red Dot Max 5.1 gr (841 fps)
45 Auto 230 gr TJM RN OAL 1.26" Red Dot Max 5.3 gr (839 fps)

SteveC posted the following older Alliant's online load data for 9mm in another thread:

In my April/May range tests, the following produced good accurate target loads.

9mm:
125 gr RN Plated - 4.0-4.3 gr Promo at 1.125" OAL
125 gr MBC RN Lead - 4.0 gr Promo at 1.125" OAL

As for 40S&W, I have used 4.0-4.8 gr to test 180/165 gr 40S&W bullets (since I cannot verify the published source, use the following 40S&W load data at your own risk - start at 4.0 and work up from there):

40 S&W:
165 gr RNFP FMJ/Plated - 4.7 gr Promo at 1.125" OAL - Accurate with moderate recoil
180 gr RNFP/TCFP FMJ/Plated - 4.3 gr Promo at 1.125" OAL - Accurate with moderate recoil
180 gr MBC TCFP Lead - 4.0 gr Promo at 1.125" OAL - Very accurate with moderate recoil

 

[EddieNFL]

Were your groups fired offhand or benched?

 

[LiveLife]

I always shoot off hand.

 

[noylj]

The nice things about Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, Herco, and Blue Dot are that they are not sensitive to exact charge weight, do not have sudden increases in pressure with a slight increase in charge weight, and can be compressed without any pressure spikes.
As far as I know, Promo has always been Red Dot without the red dots. Since I am color blind, I have never seen a red dot anyway.
Red Dot has never been the best powder in my guns, but it is almost always the second or third best powder in terms of accuracy.
My only concern with powder selection is (1) accuracy and (2) safe pressures. I have not found Clays, N310, WST, or TiteGroup to perform well in my guns using those two criteria.

 

[LiveLife]

For plinking fun, I test loaded MBC 125 gr 9mm smallball LRN with 3.5 gr of Promo into .38 Spc cases just with a 0.377" taper crimp and 1.446" OAL. Recoil was mild and I got 2.0" shot groups at 7 yards out of a 2" S&W. Remember that we did this as a test as MBC 9mm bullets are 0.356" in diameter and not 0.358". You will get better accuracy out of .38 bullets, but we sure had fun with this load at the range - for some reason, we couldn't stop laughing.

Missouri Bullets sell 125 gr TCFP .38 bullet in a 3000 round bundle for $165 (that's $55/1K). If you are looking to economize, not sure if you will get loads any cheaper.

 

[evan price]

Promo only comes in 8# kegs, it is intended for bulk shotshell reloading and was originally meant for gun clubs and remanufacturers. I've heard it comes from rejected lots of other powders that are reground (?) and that it is the same as old Red Dot just without the red dots. It also can have lot-to-lot variances and when starting a new keg it's a good idea to check a few rounds before loading a bunch.
Otherwise, when loaded to Red Dot data by weight, NOT volume, it performs good enough (especially at the price point!) that it will be a good choice for cheap loads. It works great for duplicating The Load for cast bullets in rifles.

 

[ReloaderEd]

'Stick to Alliant Powders Bullseye, unique,2400 and W231. Five pounds of Bullseye will last me probably the rest of my life if my darn son and son in laws don't shoot it up. Be safe

 

[LiveLife]

ReloaderEd, I use W231/HP38 and Alliant powders Bullseye/Green Dot and like them.

Just posting that Promo makes good economical plinking rounds. My W231/HP38 loads are still more accurate and meter better.

FWIW, my high range load data 40S&W Promo loads for 165 gr jacketed bullets produced very close felt recoil and POI as some of my factory JHP rounds.

 

[fecmech]

Promo is not Red Dot without the dots, it is an amalgamation of some of their powders that did not meet spec and blended to Red Dot's burn rate. It is slightly more dense than Red Dot as Alliant recommends using a powder bushing 2 sizes smaller than the Red Dot bushing to get the same weight( as Red Dot) for shot shell reloading. I've burned a couple 8 lb. jugs through my 12 ga and have been perfectly satisfied in that application.

 

[oneounceload]

America's number one economy-priced 12 gauge target powder. Promo has the same burn speed as Red Dot, but is more dense, thus requiring a smaller bushing to obtain the same charge weight.

* Budget priced
* Economical trap, skeet and sporting clay loads
* Easy metering and consistent charging

Principal Purpose: Light and standard 12 ga target loads.
Secondary Uses: Handgun loads

Remarks:
Reliable performance shot after shot. Standard charge weights work great.

That's from Alliant - use the Red Dot loadings, but be aware they meter differently