Promo vs Unique

[LiveLife]

Range Test - Promo vs Unique

I am fairly new to Unique and decided to take a more in-depth look at this powder that many consider poor metering yet accurate.

Promo:
I ran into Promo last year and have found it to be a very usable powder, especially for 45ACP. Although it is a large flake powder that does not meter well, I have found that 4.0 gr produces very accurate shot groups with 200 gr SWC (As indicated on Alliant's website, I use Red Dot load data by weight from 2004 Alliant load data and 2011 load data). After some frustration with metering variation of .2-.3+ gr in my new Pro Auto Disk, I found that my 16 year old Pro Auto Disk meters better with .1-.2 gr variations (I guess some things get better with age ).

Unique:
As to Unique, comments from other reloaders like "It burns dirty and meters poorly" kept me away from Unique. Recently, urging from other THR members got me curious to try it. Since I field strip and clean the barrel after the range trip, how dirty a powder burns really never became an issue for me. I gave Unique a very cursory test during a small powder comparison I did with Berry's new 124 gr HBRN and this time, I wanted to give it all the benefit of the doubt. I read up on several threads to figure out the quirks of this powder (like tapping the powder hopper about 10 times to settle the powder) and even thought about hand weighing test charges.

Powder comparison:
Promo is just about the largest flake powder I have used for pistol. Unique is not as large as Promo flakes but to me seem more "fluffier". Since the perspectives of the picture did not show the size comparison, the average larger grains on the bottom left shows size/texture comparison to flattened ball powder W231/HP38.

Reloading Process:
I normally resize and hand prime test load cases, but I used Pro 1000 in progressive mode for these test rounds. Mixed head stamp brass was used with Winchester LP primers. Missouri Bullets 12 BHN 200 gr SWC was seated to 1.260" OAL. M&P45 (4.5" barrel) was used off hand at 7, 10, and 15 yards. Powder charges were verified on Ohaus 10-10 beam scale. Reference load Promo charges varied 3.9-4.1 gr, but most of the charges read around 4.0 gr. Two Unique charges were used (I tried for 5.0 gr and 5.5 gr) with lower charge varying 4.9-5.1 gr and higher charge varying 5.5-5.7 gr.


Range Test Impression:
4.0 gr of Promo with 200 gr SWC is softer shooting load than 5.0 gr of W231/HP38. It is my wife's favorite load and especially a great target load for compact 45s. As anticipated, 7-10 yard targets produced 1.5" shot groups and 15 yard target produced 2.0" shot group.

5.0 gr of Unique produced a bit more felt recoil than the Promo load. 7 yard target produces a very tight 1" shot group with 1.5" shot group at 10 yards. 15 yard shot group was 2.0". This load shot and felt more accurate than the Promo load.

5.5-5.7 gr Unique produced felt recoil slightly more than the 5.0 gr W231/HP38 load. 7 yard group was 1" and 10 yard group was 1.5". 15 yard group opened up, but I think I pushed the last shot.

Despite the larger flake size and variations in powder drops, both Promo and Unique produced shot groups I consider accurate for me off hand at 7-15 yards. I know there are other powders that will produce even smaller shot groups, but the shot groups were certainly good enough.

 

[rsrocket1]

I really like Unique in that it is such a versatile powder. If you are into competition shooting (I'm not), you'll find that you can make more power factors using Unique without going into dangerous pressures than you can with Red Dot/Promo. You can't beat Promo for economy and that's probably the powder I'd go to when I get into shotshell reloading.

I use Unique for 45 ACP, .38 spcl and 357 mag.
One of my favorite loads for Unique is a plinking round for my .308 bolt rifle. 10 grains under a 110 grain round nose bullet gets me ~1" @ 50 yards with a recoil similar to a .22 mag and nearly zero wear on the cases. I can also shoot 100 of these in a day without the slightest hint of a sore shoulder or a sore wallet (about $13).

You'll find that as you reduce the load with Unique, you will start getting lower powder burn efficiency to the point that the case will not expand enough to seal off the gasses and you start getting blowback toward your face and sooty cases. That's where you stop because as the soot builds up, you will start to experience FTE's. A simple cleaning of the chamber fixes that.

On the top end, I've loaded 6.0 grains under a 230g LRN or plated LRN and get about the same velocities and stout recoil as a military round. I don't care for that and usually use about 4.5 to 5 grains for most of my shooting.

Thanks for the report on Promo.

 

[dickttx]

I have been loading the 200gr MBC BN12 RNFP. When I got up to 6.4gn of Unique it is very clean burning and barely smokes the cases. And accurate for me. Accurate, but dirty, with the lower charges.

 

[Yarddog]

I'm another Unique Fan & use it in all my hanguns, Unless I want a hunting load, Then I use H 110 for my 180gr Hardcast in my 357mag ; )
Y/D

 

[LiveLife]

Thanks for the report on Promo.

You are welcome. Using Red Dot load data for Promo has been working out very well. I am planning to do more testing with 200 gr SWC and Promo between 4.0 - 4.5 gr and Unique between 5.0 - 5.5 gr at 1.260" OAL.

Since there's quite a bit of recipes that vary between 2004 and 2011 Alliant load data for 45ACP (especially for longer OAL lead/TMJ loads), I combined both into a single PDF file for easier comparison - - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=141550&stc=1&d=1304379207

 

[Walkalong]

I shot one bullet with four different powders today after work. I could not really prove one was best or one was worst. I only had enough to shoot two groups with each powder though. I think I narrowed it down enough to choose only two next time though. Some of it is just gut felling, like when you are sure your trigger control was good but the group was poor, or when you put four in a super tight wad, but call the two out of the group.

Without a ransom rest it is as much an art as a science some days.

I am suspecting the bullet to be the culprit sometimes as well. Sort of like that should have gone where I aimed.

Jury is still out. I did change three things this time though, powder weight, O.A.L., and crimp. yea, I know better.

I am going back to the old O.A.L., a crimp halfway between, and adjust the charge on a couple. Dang, there it is again.

A plug for Unique. Nope, it doesn't meter great, but not bad either, and nope, it isn't squeaky clean, but not filthy either. What it does do well is shoot great in many applications. It is a little like W-231 in that it is pretty forgiving and is accurate over a fairly wide charge range. It doesn't have a narrow accuracy range as far as charge weight goes. It's fairly wide and easy to stumble into.

 

[LiveLife]

Some of it is just gut feeling, like when you are sure your trigger control was good but the group was poor, or when you put four in a super tight wad, but call the two out of the group.

Yes, I agree. That's why I usually do a second follow-up range test along with a known reference load (for 45ACP, it's 5.0 gr W231/HP38) to verify my shot groups.

I have shot enough 4.0 gr Promo with 200 gr SWC that I know what the average shot groups are out of several thousand, not 5 rounds.

I could "feel" and "tell" that 5.0 gr Unique load was shooting more accurate than the 4.0 gr Promo load. This range test was a start-to-max load data "rough feel" for Unique. I plan on doing more testing with hand weighed charges in increments of .1 gr between 5.0 gr and 5.5 gr also to satisfy my curiosity, but as of now, I would be quite happy with the accuracy of 5.0 gr load.

I had shot various bullet types and weights out of the same pistol/barrel before testing the Unique loads. I will only test Unique loads on my next range trip.

 

[evan price]

44 Magnum, 240-grain lead semi wadcutter (I am using the Lee TL-240-SWC bullet crimped in the top groove). 8.0 grains of Promo. 1000 FPS and shoots great.

 

[Pete D.]

Promo

I use Promo for shotshells. I was wondering if published data was available for handgun loads.
Alliant has data published you say?
I shall look.
Thanks
Pete

 

[hogcowboy]

The first reloads I did, I used Unique. I wanted to have just one powder. I soon found that wasn't possible but
Unique comes close. I use it on .380, .357 and .45. That's a pretty wide range in my way of thinking. So yes, I like Unique.

 

[Walkalong]

I could "feel" and "tell" that 5.0 gr Unique load was shooting more accurate

With a really good load the rounds just fall into the group easily (with reasonable trigger control of course), where with a poor load even with great concentration and trigger control some rounds just won't go and it never really tightens up.

 

[LiveLife]

I use Promo for shotshells. I was wondering if published data was available for handgun loads. Alliant has data published you say?

Alliant's website indicates that you can use Red Dot load data for Promo by weight:

"Promo has the same burn speed as Red Dot, but is more dense, thus requiring a smaller bushing to obtain the same charge weight."

I isolated the Red Dot load data from 2004 Alliant guide into a pdf to use for Promo - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=141716&stc=1&d=1304657266

 

[1KPerDay]

I'm liking red dot through my lee pro auto disc... 4.0 grains seems very consistent. I had some variation of about .2 grains for a while but it seems to have settled down.

 

[zxcvbob]

I bought a keg of Promo about 7 years ago and I use it extensively, mostly in .45 Colt loads. I may have used up a pound by now. (a little goes a long way, even more-so than Bullseye)

 

[Pete D.]

data

Alliant's website indicates that you can use Red Dot load data for Promo by weight:

"Promo has the same burn speed as Red Dot, but is more dense, thus requiring a smaller bushing to obtain the same charge weight."

I saw that reference. It refers to use in shotshells as far as I know. The bushing reference is a hint and the fact that they have no handgun data for it....though they do list Handgun loads as a secondary use.

If it works safely, I'd like to give it a try.
Pete

 

[LiveLife]

If it works safely, I'd like to give it a try.

Thanks to SteveC, I used the 2004 Alliant load data to do a load/range test of Promo on these threads for 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP. I figured the short barreled G27 with heavier walled Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrel would provide me with extra margin of pressure safety, just in case. I came back with all of my fingers intact and good usable test data. I now regularly use the 2004 Alliant Red Dot load data for Promo loads.

I consolidated the 2004 Alliant Red Dot load data into a single pdf here - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=141716&stc=1&d=1304657266

Obligatory THR Disclaimer: There is no current published load data for Promo in 9mm/40S&W/45ACP. Use the following load data at your own risk.

9mm/40S&W - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=518185
45ACP - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=578444


9mm test loads - Glock 27 with Lone Wolf barrel:
125 gr Berry's Plated RN at 4.2 gr with 1.125" OAL
125 gr Missouri Bullet RN at 3.8/4.0 gr with 1.09"/1.10" OAL
125 gr Missouri Bullet RN at 4.2 gr at 1.08" and 1.10" OAL -

5 yard groups averaged 1" with one 3/4" group
7 yard groups averaged 1.5"
7-10 yard groups averaged 1"-2" (follow up range trip)
15 yard groups averaged 2"-3"

9mm Promo loads were all accurate. Recoil was firm/snappy with spent cases landing behind me and to the right.

I fired total of 500 rounds (some were slow sighted shots but most were rapid fire with front sight flash target to target and some double taps). There were 5 flyers. All 495 shots hit inside the 1/2 sheet 8x11 copy paper targets. I even got a 3" 9mm 3 shot group at 25 yards from the G27.



40S&W test loads - Glock 27 factory barrel:
155 gr FMJ (Montana Gold) at 4.8/5.2 gr with 1.125" OAL
180 gr Plated (Rainier Ballistics) at 4.5/4.8 gr with 1.125" OAL
180 gr Lead (Missouri Bullets) at 3.5/3.8/4.1/4.4 gr with 1.125" OAL

155 FMJ/4.8 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Firm recoil
155 FMJ/5.2 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Firm recoil

180 Plated TCFP/4.5 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 2" - Firm recoil
180 Plated TCFP/4.8 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Firm recoil

180 Lead TCFP/3.5 gr - Accuracy all over the 8x11 copy paper - Light recoil
180 Lead TCFP/3.8 gr - 7 yard 2" - 10 yard 3" - 15 yard 4" - Mild recoil
180 Lead TCFP/4.1 gr - 7 yard 1.5" - 10 yard 1" - 15 yard 4" - Moderate recoil
180 Lead TCFP/4.4 gr - 7 yard 1" - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 2.5" - Firm recoil

The 180 gr Rainier plated/4.5 gr was very accurate off hand. My first shot group produced 1" group at 15 yards with the G27! The 180 gr Missouri Bullet/4.4 gr was also very accurate off hand. Many 3 round 15 yard shot groups had two holes near/touching each other. The 180 Missouri Bullet/4.1 gr load also shows promise as I kept getting 1" group at 10 yards.


45ACP test load - S&W M&P45 4.5" factory barrel:[/B]
200 gr SWC (Missouri Bullet) at 4.0 gr with 1.260" OAL

200 gr LSWC/4.0 gr - 7 yard 3/4" - 10 yard 1.0" - 15 yard 2.0" - Mild recoil