Pros and cons of various Warsaw Pact 9x18mm pistols

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cluttonfred

cluttonfred

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Can anyone speak to the pros and cons of the various 9x18mm pistols from behind the former Iron Curtain that can now be found on the surplus market? Reliability, durability, concealability, shootability?

  • Makarov PM
  • Czech vz82/CZ83
  • Hungarian FEG P64
  • Polish Radom P64
  • Polish Radom P83
Thanks!
 
I've got a FEG PA-63:
IOSAj9p.jpg

Pros
light weight
thin
accurate
"point-a-bility"
inexpensive
decent power level for SD (in 9x18)

Cons
DA trigger pull (esp. without Wolff springs!)
can't take "heavy" 9x18 ammo
good luck finding magazines (and if you do, pay out the nose!)
mag capacity and power compared to others (like SR9c, G26, etc)

I got mine back when they were going for ~$150.00. Bought a set of Wolff springs, and some grips from Marschalgrips (stock ones kinda suck). I like it for CCW, but recoil can be a bit snappy due to the shape of the backstrap. On the other hand, if I close my eyes and point, when I open, the sights are in perfect alignment! Can't beat that IMO, esp. for a carry piece.
 
The Mak is a solid pistol. Made hell for stout. All steal. But it is the largest of all the pistols.

The FEG PA-63's are aluminum framed with steel slides. Right at same size as a Walther PP but lighter.

The Polish P64 is an all steel pistol and feels heavier than it looks. The one I owned had a double action pull like towing an M88 Army Towing Track. However it's single action pull you just breathed hard on it and off she went.

One you didn't mention is an FEG SMC 9x18. Don't think many were inported. PPK sized. Aluminum frame steel slide. My current EDC is the same gun in .380.:evil:
 
Makarov PM

Pros,
Accurate
simple
reliable
Can shoot stout 9x18 loads with a 19 or 21 lbs recoil spring.

Cons,
Heavy
Small sights
Bottom mag release may bother some.
If it's 50 ish years, may need some new springs. Mine needed a new main spring, I replace the recoil spring with a 19 lbs from Wolff and now the brass is easier to find.

I have a East German PM and I really like it.
 
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CZ82 9x18
Pros
Accurate
Eats anything
Great SA trigger
CZUSA is happy to provide service
Easy to shoot (good weight and balance)
12+1 capacity

Con
Normal field strip to clean is OK / beyond that it can be very tricky to reassemble
This was designed to be carried and the sights are a bit smaLL
My wife claimed mine
 
Czech vz82/CZ83

CZ82 Pros:
fits my hand like a glove (Mak I don't like at all, oddly)
Really quite accurate
12 rounds

Cons:
a little tough to find mags
sights are old school
 
I have a couple of CZ82s and a Baikal IJ70 Makarov.

PROS - They fire 9x18mm ammunition. They are both a nice sized dependable pistol design. The Makarov is built like a Russian tractor, simple and rugged. The CZ82 is more elegant, with ambidextrous controls and greater capacity, as well as sweet DA and SA trigger pulls. Both blowback / fixed barrel pistols are quite accurate with the polygonal rifled Czech model being impressively so. The eastern European pistols were designed for shooting steel cased ammo and they will reliably digest just about everything.

CONS - They fire 9x18mm ammunition. They are steel pistols heavy for their size. Even with the weight, the blowback 9x18mm recoil is pretty 'snappy'. The sights are serviceable, but harder to see than I want. The Makarov is designed with an impressive minimalist approach using very few parts, and while the CZ82 is a breeze to field strip and clean, a complete detail strip and reassembly of one is not for the faint of heart.

I have a number of different handguns in my meager collection. If dire financial difficulties ever forced me to liquidate, I suspect that the last three handguns left, based on how well I can rely on shooting them, would be two revolvers, a S&W K-frame and a Ruger Single Action, along with one semi-auto, a CZ82.
 

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Not to change the subject (I have the EG Mak and the only con is the small sights) I wonder if the CZ 83, in .380, is as reliable as the 82.

Deaf
 
Let's see, I think the others have covered most of the candidates pretty well. I have the CZ82, a Bulgarian Makarov, a P64. They are all well made, fun to shoot and reasonably accurate.

1. Best feeling in the hand and to shoot - CZ82 by far. The DA trigger is superb, the SA is great too. Grips are the most comfortable. Really like everything about the CZ82 except they are painted, not blued or anodized so you will see paint flaking off. Eventually when mine starts looking ugly, I will Cerakote it and add some pretty Walnut Marshall grips.

2. Best Looking - The Makarov. A Cold War Classic with very sleek lines and beautiful proportions. A very good shooter as well and I like the cutouts in the magazine for seeing how many rounds are loaded. As reliable as a Russian tractor, very nice pistols. I always wanted one, the E. German and Bulgarian variants are a better value than the Russian milsurp models.

P64 - Strangely, my favorite out of all three. The DA trigger is horrible in comparison to the other two and it doesn't look nearly as nice as the Makarov. The sights are microscopic and hard to see, but inexplicably, I shoot mine better than the other two. Some people grouse about the "snappy" recoil but to me, it is barely noticeable. But I shoot other guns with bigger recoil like Mausers with heavy loads and I have an AOW that I like to shoot with 3" magnum slugs for fun once in a while so the little bit of snap in the P64 is nothing. I guess if you had only shot a .22 or something, the P64 kick might be alarming but it's not bad to me.

The PA63 is on my list. But since it is not C&R, the only way to buy one in California is if someone within the state will sell it to me used. They are rare here.

Good luck!
 
I have four Makarovs, EG, two Bulgies, and a Russian commercial. As others have said they are accurate, reliable, and well built. A bit heavy, but that is a pro in my book as it adds to their durability. I carry a Bulgie Mak on occasion and it works fine for me.

Recently, I acquired a P-83 which I've seen imported in small numbers since the 90's but only recently in large numbers. I have always been intrigued because I think so highly of the PM Makarov. The P-83 is made of steel stampings, but it retains the look, and feel of the old world Combloc pistols. It is every bit as accurate, and reliable as the Makarov, for me maybe even a bit more accurate in my hands. The safety operates in the proper direction, (same as the Mak), but is not as easy to disengage as the Mak due to its slimness. This is a training issue if you are going to carry it for SD.

The P-83 felt recoil is snappy just like the Mak's but very manageable, and not anymore than comparable pistols. I have been carrying the P-83, IWB in a Don Hume holster designed for small autos. It is a great little gun, and I like it as much or more than the PM Makarov. It is a bit more complexly built, but I don't see that as an issue either.
 
I owned a P64 for all of a week.
DA trigger pull that was impossible. (fixable by swapping out springs)
Heavy for size.
Heavy recoil.
Mag release at bottom of grip.
Itty bitty sights.
Blowback action makes it recoil harder than similar sized 9mm.

I just couldn't justify it.
That said, the SA pull was nice and light, and honestly, the heel mag realse can be gotten used to. I have the same on my Sig P232. I just much prefer a release button behind the trigger where we are used to it.

For roughly the same price, and size, I'd rather buy one of the used LC9's that I have seen flooding the market following the release of the LC9s. They have more power, same or less recoil, more standard/easier to find 9mm chambering, better sight, better trigger, and much lighter weight.

Edit to add:
I will say, the P64 I got was very nicely made. Machine work and bluing were very very nice. From the perspective of craftsmanship, it would beat the pants of the LC9 I mentioned above. It's just from a purely practical standpoint that I had a hard time justifying it.
 
I love my Russian Makarov. It is heavy and sturdy. I was able to find one in 380 as opposed to 9x18.
 
The CZ82 is my favorite but one con not mentioned is that there is no hammer drop. If you want to carry it, it's either cocked-and-locked, or you have to lower the hammer manually.

The single action trigger on the CZ82 is also a bit unusual - the hammer actually rocks back a little as it is pulled, almost like a DA trigger with a very, very short stroke. It's a fine trigger and I shoot this gun very well, but it was a little odd when I first encountered it.

The Maks are my second favorite and they are at their best with the slightly thicker Pearce grips installed. Compared to the CZ it holds fewer rounds and the sights are smaller and harder to see. The blued finish is prettier but less durable that the painted finish typical of the CZ82s.

Both of these pistols are improved by having new recoil springs installed. If they feel snappier than you think they should, get a new spring.

Both of these guns are surprisingly accurate and they will last longer than you will. Parts should be available for a long time.
 
By American standards the CZ-82 is a bit to large for easy conceal carry and a bit to small for open carry by LEO's as a duty gun.

By standards behind the Iron Curtain it made for a excellent back-up gun when your primary is a automatic machine gun such as the AK-47.

I am not really sure what niche my CZ-82 fits in but it is a very comfortable gun to shoot.
 
A standard Mak and the CZ82 are the best selection as far as being able to buy extra magazines and probably finding spare parts.

Unless you just wanted one of the others just for collecting foreign pistols, most Fegs and Polish pistols will be hard to find parts for.

The CZ82 is also available as the CZ83 if you want a .380.

The CZs will probably be the easiest to shoot but hardest to conceal because of their size.
 
I have a P64 that I like alot. Accurate, all steel and easy to clean. Double action is smooth but stout. Single action is one of the best I've shot except for my 1911's but they had trigger jobs.
 
Makarov PM
- pros: accurate, reliable, robust, fun, small-ish, quintessential com-bloc pistol for history buffs
- cons: small sights

Czech vz82/CZ83
- pros: accurate, reliable, robust, fun, czech-quality handgun
- cons: a bit big compared to the makarov

Hungarian FEG P64
- no opinion

Polish Radom P64
- small, classy styling
- cons: horrendous DA trigger pull (can be improved with replacement springs), tiny sights

Polish Radom P83
- accurate, reliable, robust, fun ... much better trigger pull than the p64.
- cons: not so stylish as the Mak or P64.
 
CZ 82

Pros:

Many modern features for its diminutive price: push button mag release instead of a heal release, poly rifling, double stack mag, ambi controls.

Surprisingly accurate with various steel cased loads I've shot. I haven't put it in a ransom rest. I can shoot groups with it as well or better than I can with any other service pistol I have.

I haven't pushed mine hard and don't have a particularly high round count but mine has been reliable.

It has the best SA/DA trigger of any of the SA/DA guns I have used. It is better in both SA and DA. I have directly compared it to the following: Sig 226, Beretta 92, CZ 75 (and clones), HK 45, HK USP, Sig 229, (I may be forgetting others).


Cons:

Its big for what it is. Its narrow slide makes it look smaller but it is a pretty big gun. It is bigger than a Glock 26 and much closer to the size of a G19. It would really benefit from some think grips. Even then its just not a small gun. I'd much rather have a 15 shot 9x19 than a 12 shot blow back 9x18.

If you don't want to carry it cocked and locked it requires manual de-cocking.

Its recoil is heavy for its caliber. I'm not saying it is a punishing gun to shoot or anything. However, being a blow back gun it has more recoil than one would expect from such a big 9x18.

I have a hard time getting to the mag release button. I think thin grips would help.



P64:

As others have noted it has the most atrociously heavy DA pull I have ever experienced. I would seriously impressed by anyone that could consistently get good accuracy with that gun in DA. It is said spring swaps help but I've not personally experienced it to see how much. It would need to be a monumental difference.

Again the blow back action makes for notable felt recoil.

If I had to be in a gun fight with any of them I don't think I would hesitate in picking the Cz82. That said, my CZ 82 is pretty far down the list of my guns I would choose to carry. Not that it couldn't be used, I just feel there are many better choices.

Unfortunately prices have climbed on all of them. There was a time when all of them were cheap enough that they were worth picking up just because.
 
I have the .22 version of the PA-63, imported by Interarms. Very impressed with the build and the depth of the blued finish. Apparently a solidly-built firearm, and that's probably indicative of the maker's quality.

But, an all-but-unusable DA trigger, made worse by the fact it's a rimfire. Still, a great gun at the range.

I also have a Bulgarian Makarov, circa 1979. Near-excellent condition, but I have not yet shot it (hoping to change that tomorrow), having only owned it a month or so. It's also a nicely-finished and well-feeling weapon in the hand, with the heft and feel I enjoy.

But, the de-cocker goes up to drop the hammer, and down to ready the pistol to fire. Will take many of you a bit to get used to that, as that's different from those on many other popular guns that are so equipped.
 
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