Prs style stages

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taliv

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Didn’t want walkalongs other thread to stray too much from gear so I’ve started a separate one.

This is my kind of stage....

Shoot the three white heads by each car without hitting the orange hostages. Targets between 400-500 yards and I’m guessing those heads are 6”x9” at the widest points

First pic is through a spotting scope. Next two show what it looks like up close.

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The heads flap when you hit them. Iirc these are big dog steel. Some of my fav
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(These examples are at k&m in TN)

Today I was practicing shooting those 9 targets in 30 second from prone. I did it three times. First time I missed one and shot a hostage. Second time I forgot to hold on the second car so all three rounds were .5 low. Third time I shot it clean. First time I was slow. Second two were right at 30 seconds.
 
Do you get penalized for misses, or do they just count hits in the allotted time?
Varmint answered in the other thread but most matches specify a cof and it might be limited rounds or unlimited. You might have to hit a target before you can move to the next one. ( they don’t want you shooting at the 1200 yard if you can’t hit the 600 for example). So if you shoot your 10 rounds trying to hit 600 you might not get a shot at 1200.
Some are one round per target. Some are one round but if you miss you can take a second shot for fewer points. The ELR match will run this way. First round hit is 2 pt and if you miss but hit it on the second try you get 1 point. Two misses and you move on to next target.
 
I wish my local club had more room to support stages like that,

Then again, K&M is one of the premier places for PRS
 
My son and I are taking a rainy day off together, so I'll add little chunks/ramblings through the day as we try out our/his new Nintendo Switch:

Matches are generally broken up 40-50% prone, the balance as positional shooting. That means a blend of all stages which are all prone (dive on your face and engage targets from one position) and stages which start or end prone, and transition to positional shooting from obstacles or barricades. Most targets are 2-4MOA, but almost always with a few targets within the match which might be as small as 1/2MOA. Some MD's will write stages to restrict gear, but for any stage, if you want to use it, it has to be in hand when starting - meaning you can't have a pack full of crap laying near the shooting position. Ranges under 350 are rare, and past 1200 equally so. Here are some types of stages, positions, obstacles, etc I've seen to be common.

Troop line stages: Every match I've been to has had some form of troop line stage. Dive prone at the signal, engage targets at various ranges, usually near to far. One or two shots each, sometimes hit to advance. Example: Start standing 10yrds behind firing line, rifle staged, mag in, bolt back. At signal, go prone and engage targets with 2 shots each near to far. 515, 642, 729, 825, 955. 10 rounds, 90 seconds.

TYL/KYL Stages: Usually single position - 4 or 5 targets of decreasing size on a rack. Hit to advance. Test Your Limits = hit to advance, score = targets hit. Know Your Limits = start over if you miss, score = the highest number of targets hit in a string. Usually repeat the sequence, so a guy who doesn't miss would go large to small, large to small. KYL's force the shooter to consider their round count and their capabilities under the conditions. For example - 10rnds total, 5 targets large to small. You hit 1, 2, and 3, miss the 4th, hit 1, 2, and 3 again, if you miss, you'll start over at zero and only have 2 rounds left. So you can bet on yourself to hit #4 the second time, or you can bow out and keep your 3.

Windows/Portholes: Shoot targets from multiple window positions in a wall or from a conex box like @taliv pictured above. It might be a left and right target, engage both from each of 5 windows. Or a near and far target from each of 4 windows. Or it might be 1 round each from each of 8 windows - this is a separator stage, as building 8 positions in 90 seconds is PUSHING the pace.

Rooftop: Every match I've fired has had a rooftop stage, typically used the same way - 3 positions, sometimes coupled with another obstacle. Example 1: 2 shots with both feet on the ground on the right side of the rooftop, 4 rounds from the top of the rooftop with both feet ON the rooftop, 2 rounds with both feet on the ground on the left side of the rooftop. 8 rounds in 90seconds. Example 2: 2 rounds each from 2 squares of the cargo net at the 350yrd target, then 2 rounds from right side of rooftop, both feet on ground, 2 rounds from top of rooftop, no feet on ground, 2 rounds left side, both feet on ground. 10 rounds, 90 seconds.

All Holds/Dial 1: Can't touch your scope once the clock starts. You can either have your scope set to your 100yrd zero, or to ONE of the target ranges of the stage. I've seen this one also used as a separator stage, where 3 barricade positions on 3 targets at different ranges were used, so the shooter had to remember to hold 3 ranges while moving 3 different positions. Throw some wind on top of that and guys will forget to float their POA in space. It can be super fun, but also super frustrating.

Barricade: 3-5 positions on a barricade, whether it's the perimeter steps or portholes. The PRS Barricade Skills stage is 1 target, 2 shots from each of 4 positions. Other designs might mix a lot of different toys into the barricade demand: Example 1: Targets = 2 coyotes at 560yrds, one boar at 680yrds, one shot at each target from each of 3 positions = 9 shots in 90seconds, 3 positions. Example 2: Big & small targets at 525yrds, engage both from each of 5 positions.

Vehicles: Every match I've shot has had at least one vehicle stage. Examples: Start sitting in the passenger die of a pickup, jump out at the buzzer, and shoot coyote targets from prone on the flatbed. Another stage, shoot from the rear bed, through the cab, and from the hood of am HMMWV, or through the port turret of the HMMWV, from a helicopter cabin, out the driver's window or over the bedrail of a truck, from the rear seat of an old Willys.

Common Obstacles: Tractor Tires, concrete culverts, cattle gates, scaffold panels, telephone poles, rooftops, fallen tree limbs, corrugated drain tile, Fiberline spools, railroad ties, 4x4 tank traps, rooftops, boat simulators, window walls (connex boxes or free standing walls).

Examples of stages I recall (not outlined above, and recognizing I'm pulling the ranges out of my ear, but approximate to what we shot):

1) 8rnds in 2min, 4 positions. Start standing, port arms, at signal, go prone on left side of large pipe, fire 2 shots at 730yrd target, move to top of pipe and fire 2 shots at 570yrd target, move to prone with rifle inside of pipe, fire 2 shots at 570yrd target, move to prone right side of target, 2 shots at 730yrd target. I thought I had a sneaky game plan, of wedging my shoulders and chest in the diameter of the pipe - it was incredibly stable, but my brake made it feel like someone was place kicking my face through a pillow with each shot.

2) 12rnds in 90 seconds, prone at 730yrds, 3 targets. Big to small twice, change mag, and change to support side, repeat.

3) Start standing at port arms behind the swinging platform, on signal, build position on lower level of platform fire 2 shots at each target at 350, 425, and 500yrds, then move to standing on swinging platform with rifle on upper level, fire 4 shots at IPSC at 500.

4) Start standing behind provided tripod (with hog saddle, which happens to be at that awkward height too tall for prone, but too low for sitting/kneeling). At signal, hit to advance 435, 565, 655, 805, and 880yrds, remaining rounds to be fired at 955yrd target. 10rnds in 90 sec.

5) Start standing with pistol at low ready, mag in, slide locked back, unlimited pistol rounds, engage 5 pistol targets with two impacts each at 25-40yrds, hit to advance, clear pistol and stage on table, advance to conex and engage Big & Small targets at 550 with one shot each through 5 different windows, 2 diamonds, 1 rectangle, and 2 squares. Pistol impacts not for score, but only to advance to rifle. Pistol + 10 rounds in 2min. **This ended up being a separator stage because most guys are getting into the conex with 45seconds off of the clock, or even worse, since they'd rush the pistol, then they'd have a little over a minute left to cross the full length of the conex and build 5 positions. I took my time, took 11 shots on the pistol, had a 31rnd mag loaded so I wouldn't have to change mags, and I was on my rifle by 23sec off of the clock. Finished my 10 rifle rounds with plenty of time remaining, where a lot of guys timed out because they'd end up taking 15 or more shots on the pistol and have a mag change.

6) Tic Tac Troop Line - start standing behind the tic tac toe board (window frame # hung on a horizontal axle), at signal, shoot 500, 600, 700, and 800 yrd targets near to far then change position and engage far to near. 8 shots in 90 seconds. **This one required the shooter to have more than just a normal free recoil, gamechanger bag trick, as the barricade moves. Some guys tried to go prone and kinda wedge the frame, but about the time they'd get set up, they'd realize the crown of the range blocked the targets, so they'd have to move. Guys using a tripod as a rear support blaze through, guys trying to balance the frame really struggled.

7) TYL + Confirm or Troop Line + Confirm: Either way, A) TYL + Confirm, TYL Rack at 487 and confirmation target at 550. Engage TYL rack, hit to advance, hitting confirmation target before moving onto next TYL target. B) Troop Line + Confirm - Engage targets near to far, hit to advance, hitting confirmation target before moving onto next range target. 10rnds in 90sec. Just adds some mental work for the shooter, and requires twice as much dialing. On Troop + Confirm, a guy can dial the confirmation and hold the ranges, or dial the ranges and hold the confirmation target, or dial all of it.

8) Deer Blind: Start standing outside of the deer blind with the rifle leaning inside. On signal, enter and engage targets through the window while seated, 4 prairie dogs at 350, 2 coyotes at 570, and two rounds on the hog at 855. 8 shots in 90 seconds. The bad news in this stage, even as a relatively young mid-30 something, relatively flexible/nimble, and NOT sporting an overweight dad-bod, the box blind was about a half size smaller than I really could shoot comfortably. The window was small, and a suppressed rifle was REALLY long and ungainly trying to go from leaning to out the window. The provided chair was about 6" shorter than needed for the window, so I ended up sitting on top of my pump pillow, and the window was too small (short) to use a barricade bag. I threw a pair of gloves under my forend to nest the rifle better than nothing (before I added the Area419 rail). I think my first round was somewhere at 30-35 seconds, and I had to BLAZE through to get to the hog before time ran out.

Lots of other stage designs, but this gives an idea of some of the things a shooter should expect to face.

Match Day Weather & Lighting Challenges: Shooting will last throughout most of the day, so if wind dies off in the midday heat, guys who were on a stage in the morning might have fought wind which sucked, and the guys midday had it easy. Alternatively, there might not be much mirage to deal with in the morning, then it becomes more brutal as the day heats up. You might also see some targets in the shadow of a ridge/berm which are really easy to pick out when the sun is low in the morning, but then wash out as the sun moves - or vice versa, where a target was easy to see in the light, then blends in as the shadow moves over them. Some targets are easy to pick out for the first few squads because they're still painted, but later squads might have a grey splattered target blending into a caliche berm. Rain might move in, or off, etc. So it can be a little different than some other games where targets are painted or pasted for every shooter, or where most of the guys are on the line at the same time.

Range Set up Challenges: Targets in grass fields or in front of brush piles or tire stack berms won't give any splash response, so a guy needs to be mindful of his recoil management to try to watch for trace and target response, else they won't pick up any info from their previous shot. This is really important for troop lines, where the closest, big target might give you a wind clue which will come in handy for the farthest targets. If you call a 12mph wind, but your impact is on the downwind edge of a .5mil target, you want to manage your recoil to be able to see the target swing response, realize you hit the downwind edge, and add the equivalent of .2mil more wind for your next target down range - aka, correct your wind call based on how your target swung. Naturally, if you throw one in the dirt and see the splash, correct based on that response. I've heard some shooters would even shoot at something on the berm, instead of a target in a grass field, if they've been having troubles reading wind, just so they can get a reading.

One nasty trap new shooters can fall into: Short range stages generally mean some aspect of the stage is very difficult. Either the targets are small, the positions are tough, or the speed requirement is high. When I see an 1100yrd stage, I expect to do very well as long as the wind isn't doing kartwheels. When I see a 350yrd stage, I ready myself to push the pace hard, otherwise I won't get through all of my shots.

The PRS Skills stages in the rulebook are decent primers for what a shooter should have for competency. There are things like boat simulators, movers, 1/4moa targets, intermittent targets, off-hand shooting, etc which will challenge most shooters, but the bread and butter skills are in the 4 Skills stages. Barricade, prone, odd size object, building and rebuilding position, mag changes, panning transitions, target string sequences, hold overs... The only complaint/criticism I'd have is the prevalence of mag changes - which may not be so relevant in matches, but is good practice to operate your rifle on the clock in case you run into unexpected feeding issues.
 
06282F7B-DD10-4AAE-A523-19D2E5636F75.jpeg Great summary varmint!

Back in the day, kyl meant if you missed a target you zeroed the stage and are done. Tyl you lose points but can keep shooting.


In Oklahoma they had troops and lines. A line was where the entire squad (like 15-20+ guys) laid down in a row and faced about a dozen targets that were in a line from left to right and everybody had to laze the targets cause the guy on the left was at a different distance from the guy on the right. Then they’d go down the line and everyone would shoot the first target. Then everyone would shoot the second etc. I liked those stages cause the targets were small and far away but you got a lot of time to read wind and watch others. Up to two shots per target.
Troops were the similar but instead of shooting one at a time you’d shoot 5 targets near to far that were painted one color. Then when it was your turn again you’d shoot another 5 that were a different color. One shot per.

Big and small used to be a choice. Each target rack would have a 1 moa target and a 2 moa target and you could pick which one you wanted to shoot at.
 


Takes a min for it to focus but you can see a 300yd and 500yd mover. Stages might be shooting them alternately which could be different leads and different directions plus hold over plus wind.
Or alternating between a mover and one of the kyl racks. Where you shoot the big plate and a mover and then the next smaller plate and a mover etc. that means you’re either holding really tight for the smallest static plate or dialing it and holding over for the mover. Challenging but fun.

My shots at the 300
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My shots at the kyl rack between movers (far right in the video
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Not so good on the back mover haha. Very rusty.
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Rifles only used to have a stage called moving chaos which was one of my favorites. I think there were five targets from like 150-700 yards or something and you shot one of them between each shot at their mover which I think was around 550 yards but I don’t remember.
 
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Two sets of big small and couple more kyl in this pic but they’re hard to see due to white on grass
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The change in KYL rules might be a good opportunity to talk about how the game is changing as it grows. We’re seeing matches become more “sport driven,” and more “match flow design driven,” which takes out some of the really cool stuff, or might seem to water down some old rules. This is more of a peek into how MD’s have to think as they set up their matches, but it’s good for shooters to understand why the matches are set up a certain way.

I’ve been to matches in the last 2 yrs where the “old school” KYL rules were used, but it’s pretty rare. Lots of reasons for that change:

• New shooters are really disheartened if they miss on the first target and are “one and done” for a stage. Most new shooters really hate blanking any stage, so having that goose-egg on their sheet at the end of a match because of ONE miss kinda sucks. (Side note: I have been to two club matches where the squad mom/RO had new shooters call out if they wanted to stop and keep their score, but then still finish shooting all of their loaded rounds. Kinda letting them run it as a TYL for pride, but score it as a KYL).

• Top shooters don’t like the fact one miss can influence the match score so much. One miss can put them 5 points behind, while a conservative middle-of-the-pack shooter might bow out at 3 and pick up a lot of ground on them. If a squad is lucky and shoots in the morning when the wind is low, then another top shooter ends up shooting in 10mph with 18mph gusts, that ONE stage can dictate the ranking. Shooters raise hell, and matches only live by getting shooters to enter - and traditional KYL rules put too much importance on one stage.

• Sub-note here - traditional KYL’s have issues at both club and national levels: club matches are meant to be practices, not really competitions themselves, so setting up KYL’s where guys shoot a low round count stage, or even a “one and done” stage takes away practice opportunities. At big matches, again, one miss will cause 5 misses which can totally upset the shooter rankings. It just puts too much importance on one stage.

• Low round count stages, especially potentially “one and done” stages really screw up match pacing. That stage might be an average of 3-4 shots per shooter, while the squad in front of them is shooting 8-10 rounds, so the guys coming off of the KYL stage run up the tail of the next squad. I shot a match where the KYL was the last stage on a long trail, where you walked about a half mile back to Stage 1, that made up some pace, but not all ranges are laid out like that. Once a log jam happens, it’s REALLY difficult to clear. Technically, two squads can finish a 5rnd or less KYL stage before the one squad ahead of them could finish, it just turns into a mess when you have a bottleneck and 10 squads to run through it.

• Same work for less use: MD’s are setting up a fixed number of stages, they have to set up the KYL rack, and dedicate one of their limited shooting positions to it, then only get limited use out of the low round count design.

So traditional KYL stages are kinda extinct.

Similarly, I’ve been on Line stages as well where we’re all on the line and active. Sometimes this is set up so shooters alternate firing down the line (either one shot each, or first guy puts 2 shots on target A, then second guy, then 3rd, so on, then 1st guy puts 2 on target B, etc), or where you just laid on line until the guy in front of you finished the entire stage. Sometimes you’re not allowed to be on glass until you’re up, sometimes you can be. Like @taliv mentioned, it gives each shooter their own unique distance too. It usually ends up causing confusion, and if it’s a club match, scoring is a pain when your spotter and scorer are also active on the line shooting. With the shooters intermixed, it’s impossible to run a clock, everyone has to get their poop in a group at the same time, we all have ear pro and not everyone knows the name of the dude in front of them, so these stages tend to cause log-jams for match flow. You also get some shooter complaints because laying beside a 7wsm or 6.5-284 with a Muscle Brake or Fat B@stard is awful (2 dudes on my state club I squad with a lot) - especially when you’re a polite shooter running a suppressed 6mm (I get them back, since my Seekins flings hot brass like a gasser). One club match I shot even required each shooter to call out their wind hold (mph) after their shot, so the next guy could judge where they had impacted vs. where they hit and decide if they wanted to change their own call based on the previous guy. Kind of a train up opportunity built into the stage. I personally really like this kind of stage, but it’s becoming less common. Sometimes we see the Line arrangement because of the nature of the obstacle - Lines will often get set up on top of towers or platforms, where having your squad walking around means your reticle will be bouncing around all over the place - so the MD will lay everybody down together to limit how much their platform moves for the shooters.

Similarly, you don’t see a lot of movers or traditional-use boat simulators. Movers are expensive to buy and maintain, so only big matches will have them, which means a guy who has access to movers for practice has a huge advantage on those stages - which can upset the applecart for a skill which isn’t that common. To flatten this out a bit, we don’t see a lot of movers, and when we do, they are used with other fixed targets, so a shooter picks up some points instead of being a pure mover stage. Boat simulators are really difficult for new shooters, so we see swingsets being used in different ways - for example, half or all of the stage being shot with the rifle supported on the swing, but the shooter on the ground. At Jurassic this fall, we shot semi-prone on the lower platform, then moved to standing on the swing with the rifle on the higher platform - most guys did pretty well on the bottom half, but the standing top platform was a big separator - but only 4 points instead of 10.

I expect we’ll see more changes in years to come too, either to challenge shooters more, or to accommodate more shooters in the match flow.
 
If a squad is lucky and shoots in the morning when the wind is low, then another top shooter ends up shooting in 10mph with 18mph gusts, that ONE stage can dictate the ranking. Shooters raise hell, and matches only live by getting shooters to enter
One thing about Benchrest is we rotated shooting groups until everyone had shot five for the aggregate, so no one got only morning calm vs later wind, still might get lucky/unlucky on conditions, but overall it averaged out fairly well. 10 benches 20 shooters? First ten folks shoot group one, second group of folks shoots group one, then 2, 3 etc.
 
either to challenge shooters more, or to accommodate more shooters in the match flow.
Will have to both both to grow. Run off all the average shooters and what do you have? Maybe a good thing for the top shooters, but that's all. The learning curve is already pretty big and intimidating. Folks do really badly all the time and they won;'t have fun and will eventually quit.
 
One thing about Benchrest is we rotated shooting groups until everyone had shot five for the aggregate, so no one got only morning calm vs later wind, still might get lucky/unlucky on conditions, but overall it averaged out fairly well. 10 benches 20 shooters? First ten folks shoot group one, second group of folks shoots group one, then 2, 3 etc.

I’be been through the same rotations in BR and F class, and that’s exactly my point - there’s not much weather change between shooters at a BR match. When you’re rotating the groups that quickly on the same line, it really reduces the time between the first and last shooter on that stage. It’s not perfect, but it’s as close as we can get. Plus - those 10 benches are firing at the same time, so at least those 10 are shooting the exact same conditions.

Alternatively, Precision Rifle matches are much more like action shooting competitions in how they are executed - squads take all day to rotate between stages. At a PRS match, Squad 1 shoots Stage 1 at 8:40am, while Squad 2 will get back to Stage 1 around maybe 2:30 in the afternoon, sometimes even later. Within your squad, each shooter takes their respective turn, so say there’s an 8 man squad, 2min stages with 2min between each shooter to police brass and let the next shooter get prepped (shouldn’t be that long, but often is), your last shooter in your squad might be shooting 30min later than your first shooter, even in the same squad.

Before PRS, I had dabbled in a lot of different types of shooting competition, but for some reason I was expecting precision rifle matches to be more like BR/F-class/Bullseye/Service Rifle. I had shot and RO’d a few “PTR” matches years ago, but we were such a small group back then, we cycled through as a group, a lot more like a BR schedule where everyone finished the stage before moving to the next course of fire. I realized at the pre-briefing of my first match it was going to be more like a 3 Gun/Clays/CAS/SASS match. Even knowing that, it was still a mental adjustment for me to realize how much changing weather and light conditions affect long range matches, where the action sports I’d shot in that format weren’t so weather/wind/light sensitive.
 
I had an additional thought this afternoon re: issues/aspects of Precision Rifle competition I thought I might share: really just another justification to haul a spotting scope and a very long range friendly LRF:

At some ranges, targets are left hanging all of the time so you might have a handful of inactive targets still hanging on the field, and often even live stages will be set up with overlapping fields of fire. Big matches will have dedicated RO’s at each stage to point out targets, but club matches usually don’t. It’s not so uncommon for entire squads to shoot at a wrong target, simply because they saw a target out on the field which looked like the right sequence, but which isn’t at the listed range. They drop bullets short or sail over, and the whole squad drops points - only because they didn’t realize they were chasing the wrong target.

One range which hosts a monthly club match and a big match (or two?) each year is really bad about having lots of targets on the field, without painting a “NO” or a red stripe on them to indicate they aren’t for the stages. They also use the same berms for different stages, so you’ll have the pleasure of occasionally watching other guys shoot your target while you’re on a stage.
 
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Sounds like a mess. Worst we had to deal with is the fellow on the bench next to you shooting your target. What the heck??? I didn't do that. (The extra bullet hole-not in the group)
 
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