PTSD=no CCW?

[jwalk]

Just a quick question,
Can military members who have been diagnosed with PTSD, depression, or any other mental/psychological disorder get a concealed weapon permit? I've read some other posts about the VA trying to take guns from veterans if they want benefits, but what does the gov't say about carrying, especially concealed?

 

[tellner]

It depends on the laws of the particular state.

 

[106rr]

I have friends who are disabled veterans with PTSD and they have permits. There are certain members of the VA especially the National Center for PTSD
who do not want any PTSD vets armed. They continually warn about it. It is clear to me that if you were a good guy before the PTSD trauma you are unlikely to commit an offense against others. The National Center for PTSD actually sees more patients who were not good guys to start with. Many of these guys would be unable to get a permit for legal reasons unrelated to simple PTSD. They have prior offenses in other areas. In many states it is illegal to discriminate against veterans. Since other PTSD (rape, kidnap,carjacking, etc.) victims/patients can and do get CCW rights it would be illegal to single veterans out as a group. They can and will deny a permit for any kind of spousal abuse, drug addiction etc.

 

[ForeignDude]

No...

In most states, you can only be denied a CCW if you were involuntarily committed for mental health treatment. Last I checked, for a veteran (i.e., a civilian), involuntary institutionalization requires at least two physicians and a conclusion that you are a "danger to self or others". Generally, the only individuals who are so treated are those who are suicidal, homicidal, or psychotic.

Beyond these categories, the diagnosis makes no difference. Some states (VA non-resident or FL non-resident) may enquire as to the possible diagnosis of bipolar disorder, and whether you are on meds for that condition (e.g., Lithium). I don't know how that plays into the process; perhaps they presume that a manic episode might lead to misuse of a firearm. Anyway, that is a minor issue overall, as bipolar disorder is relatively rare, and diagnosed less frequently than unipolar disorder.

Best thing to do is to request a CCW application, and find out exactly how the state from which you want a license deals with the mental health issue. You can usually place that request on-line, and it won't cost you a thing (unless you send it back, of course).

 

[Thin Black Line]

In most states, you can only be denied a CCW if you were involuntarily committed for mental health treatment.

That is correct and involuntary commitment is a legal process. I recall that
the Illinois State Police at one time could request records from mental health
agencies for those who were under such court orders. Although IL doesn't
have CCW, they do issue FOID cards. I think MI also had a question on their
CCW app to the effect of "are you currently receiving treatment from
a mental health provider". Not sure if they still do.

PTSD is a whole different ball of wax than Bipolar (aka Manic Depression).
I would guess that stats would show someone with a PTSD diagnosis is
less dangerous to other people than Bipolar. However, PTSD with a dual
diagnosis of severe depression would likely be more dangerous to themselves
than others, ie, suicide.

And, sadly, studies have shown that when a vet decides to commit suicide,
they are most likely to complete it using a firearm.

 

[Autolycus]

[Quorw]Originally Posted by:Thin Black Line:

I think MI also had a question on their
CCW app to the effect of "are you currently receiving treatment from
a mental health provider". Not sure if they still do.[/Quote]

I would have to reply with no. I am not currently (at this very moment being treated by a mental health provider unless my FFL can be counted as such.

Bad joke I know.

It is sad that veterans are discriminated against at all.

 

[1911 guy]

In Ohio

I was in counseling and on Welbutrin when I got my CCW. I realized I was having problems and went to see a Doc. From what I remember, this was the determining factor. I was stable enough to seek help, my therapy was voluntary, not mandatory. Firearms were discussed with my doctor, as I was in-process for a CCW and trying to sort out what was paranoia and what was a real desire to protect my family from whatever may arise in this big wide world.

I'm not a lawyer and this was several years ago. Each state is likely different.

 

[jwalk]

Thanks for the replies it seems you still can get one as long as you're not forced to seek treatment. Is it safe to assume it is the same way with getting an FFL or is that a whole other animal?

 

[DMF]

With regard to federal law, you can be treated with meds, check yourself into a mental hospital for several months, etc, etc, and not be a "prohibited person" under federal law. State laws can and do vary.

To be a prohibited person under 18USC922(g) the person must have been adjudicated a mental defective, or involuntarily committed to a mental institution.

Neither one of those is an easy task to accomplish. Therefore there is a VERY high burden the government must overcome to say a person is a prohibited person for a mental defect.

However, if this is more than a hypothetical, and you are concerned you may be prohibited under 18USC922, or state law, for a mental defect, I suggest you consult with an attorney who is competent in federal and state firearms laws.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Field of "Medicine"

After more than ten years working with (among other things) rehab of various kinds, I learned something worth sharing for those to whom RKBA is important (warning -- passionate assertions follow):

The message is control; the carrier is institutional psychiatry and psychology; the conduit is an array of "professions" ranging from education to medicine.

I've watched people go into a formal course of treatment for "anxiety" and come out a) addicted to one or more drugs, b) unable to think, c) unable to function. Rehab, for these people, was particularly troublesome, as they'd been subjected to hypnosis, weird drugs, and told repeatedly how crazy they were. By professionals. By doctors.

If you have a broken bone, see a doctor.
If you have high blood pressure, see a doctor.
If you have a rash, see a doctor.
If you have a viral or bacterial disease, see a doctor.

If you have a drug or alcohol problem, find a private treatment program, and a minister or priest.

If you have anxiety, see a minister or priest.
If you have marital problems, see a minister or priest.

If you have stress, or are overwhelmed, go shooting.

If it's physical, see a physician.
If it's mental or emotional, see someone you trust who will listen. Like a minister or priest.
If you're just down, do something about it yourself (go shooting).

Many -- even most -- people do not realize that once you have been in the hands of institutional "mental health" you have a record that cannot be expunged.

If you are charged with a criminal offense, you are guaranteed the right to a defense, trial by jury, and recourse to appeal.

If you are "charged" with being crazy, you have no recourse. If a "professional" says you're nuts, that's it, you're done.

The charter of the "mental health" community is behavioral enforcement, and they have punitive "treatment" programs available to them to get that job done.

The "mental health" community, in some countries, is fully subsidized by the state, and maintains that funding by assisting the state in attaining its objectives, said objectives pretty much always including ensuring behavioral norms.

Part of this program involves turning teachers into "mental health" adjuncts, since you need to get your mitts on the youth while they're still young.

They have worked toward this objective in the United States for decades.

A "mental health" professional now has the "authority" to have you locked up without anything resembling due process, and once you're on that radar, it's just about permanent.

Your rights, in today's world, are predicated on being acknowledged as "sane" as blessed by the WHO and its subsidiaries. If the masquerade of "mental health" as "medicine" continues for much longer, it's quite possible that the only citizens with "rights" will be those holding a "sanity" certificate on graduation from school.

For physical pain and injury and malfunction, a doctor, an actual physician, is exactly the right guy to see.

For mental/emotional stuff, you are way better off seeking trusted help outside the "medical" domain.

If you're a great believer in psychotropic drugs, then good luck to you. If you completely trust practitioners of the psych sciences, go in peace.

If you are "diagnosed" as unstable, crazy, nuts, troubled, or [euphemism], your gun rights will be the first thing to go. Followed, of course, by free speech, self-incrimination, search and siezure, . . . and so on.

You want to remain a free man? A free woman? Seek advice for the problems of the heart and mind through your clergy. Or your guru. Or your acupuncturist. Or your best buddy.

Hell, if you have to, talk to the dog!

Just keep that stuff off the state's radar.

Standard paranoia disclaimer applies. If you have not been where I have been and seen what I have seen and held the broken bodies and souls of the victims of "mental health" in your arms, then your laughter is so much whistling past the cemetery.

Y'all be well now, y'hear?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

ArfinGreebley is SOOOOO right on the money. Control is the name of the game. Lemme give you an example, direct from my own checkered past:

Many years ago, I had gone through a series of broken relationships and I was feeling a bit depressed, and a bit confused. I wasn't a bad looking person, I'm moderately intelligent, didn't have any really bad habits, but the women I was really attracted to just weren't really attracted to me.

I knew a psychologist through joint service on the board of directors of a halfway house, so I went to him and asked about doing a personality inventory to see if that would indicate if it was me that was out of kilter, or the women I had been seeing. So he arranged for me to take a MMPI (Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory). It's a long computer multiple guess quiz. I had to go to a central testing location to take it. When the results came back, we made an appointment and I went in to see him.

The bottom line was that my moral criteria preferences were "outside of statistical norms." (Meaning more conservative than the "modern," liberated females I had been dating.) Okay, that's what I was there for. The "problem" was, in effect, me. Not that I was doing anything bad, but I should recognize that I was more conservative than most women. But ... my friend wasn't done. Oh, no! He wanted to sign me up for group therapy sessions to adjust my attitudes.

"Why?" I asked.

"Well, to correct those statistical anomalies," he said.

Sorry, Doc, but you're talking about twisting my moral code. Nope, I wasn't having it. See, the dude had answered my question. I didn't feel like engaging in activities that I felt were immoral. As long as I knew that my standards were higher than those of society as a whole, I could proceed. But this highly-qualified mental health professional couldn't accept that I could be happy knowing that I was a moral being. He needed to "fix" me -- the fix being to therapize me until my standards dropped to the same level as everyone's else.

That's how it works. They want to make the rules and fit you into their pigeon holes.

The final irony was that when I left (without signing on for group therapy) I asked for a copy of MY test results. He said he couldn't give them to me. I asked why not. He cited a section of state statute. So I went to a library and I looked up the statute. The law he cited applied to psychiatrists (he was only a psychologist), and it specifically prohibited psychiatrists from giving out patient information to third parties without the patient's permission. So here we are -- he's citing a law that does not include his professional status, plus I'm clearly not a third party, plus if I'm asking for MY records, it's pretty damned clear that I've given my permission for him to release them to me. I wrote him a rather pointed letter. I quoted exactly what the law he cited actually said. I may have mentioned "malpractice" but I don't remember for certain.

I got my test results.

Don't trust them. Ever.

 

[Thin Black Line]

If it's mental or emotional, see someone you trust who will listen. Like a minister or priest.

Unfortunately, most people don't know a religious leader that well either.
And if they run into an issue they feel they can't handle they will refer
out to a professional. On the plus side they're probably going to know
someone competent and not just tell you to look in the yellow pages.

I had to go to a central testing location to take it. ......Oh, no! He wanted to sign me up for group therapy sessions to adjust my attitudes.

The MMPI is a good test --a friend would've let you take it home to fill
out. It sounds like you had that breed of psychologist a little too focused
on his bottom line rather than his clients. Just like any other profession,
there's good ones and no-so-good ones.....

 

[JIM BOB]

The VA gave me 100% PTSD and the sheriff revoked my CCW.I had the CCW for 10-12 years with no criminal record,no traffic tickets at all.Worked all my life,retired,on meds......I guess they're afraid I'll miss a dosage.

 

[Cliph]

PTSD not a reason to deny firearms purchase.

I am have been a PTSD counselor for over 28 years and I am diagnosed with PTSD and compensated at 70% ( VN Grunt Tet 68). Anyway, Federal law applies here. The question is, have you been hospitalized against your will (committed). Local laws on CCW may vary, however it is illogical to prevent combat experienced people from owning or carrying firearms. No one has ever questioned my right to buy a firearm. I was never asked if I had PTSD. I have CCWs in Oregon and Utah and again, no one ever asked if I had PTSD or any other mental disease or disorder. I have interviewed over 7000 Vets with PTSD and only 1 was ever denied the right to by any more firearms ( he had plenty already). That occurred about 5 years ago and has since been cleared up for him. The psychiatrist who examined him for his claim would not say he was competent to handle his own funds and, at that time, that triggered the VA to notify the BATF. This is no longer done. To sum up, if you think you have a mental or emotional disorder, you are far better off seeking help on your own initiative, rather than waiting for you family, friends or neighbors to convince a judge that you should be committed. If you wonder whether you have PTSD, go to your nearest Vet Center. The can determine for you, as long as you are a combat zone Vet. Their records are on paper, not computerized, so you can be as sure as is possible that no one will ever know you went to the Vet Center unless you tell them. Come by for a chat.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

If you have not been found a mental problem, involunatry committed or otherwise held because you went gaga and tore up the ER and they put a hold on you. You should be ok.

The states vary in your CCW application.

Arkansas says.

1- Have you ever been Adjudicated mentally incompetent?

2- Have you ever been VOLUNTARY Committed to a mental insiution or mental health treatement facility

3- Have you ever been INVOLUNTARILY committed to a mental insitution or mental health treatment facility?

4- Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective?

5- Do you suffer from a mental informity that prevents safe handling of a handgun?

There is one question related to Service.

Have you been dishonorably discharged?

And not least, there are other questions regarding controlled substances.

Have you in the last three years been involuntarily committed to treatement for CS?

Have you been Voluntarily as above for CS?

Do you chronically or habitually abuse a CS to extent that your normal faculties are impaired?

Are you a unlawful user of CS?

This last question includes a discharge from Military for CS or drug use.

And that is all there is to it for Arkansas.

Now, if for some reason the military discharged you because you are losing your mental marbles... I guess the state will have to decide base on your answers on your CCW application which way to go.


As far as medication... I take a little when I need to but none of it is mental. Usually if a tooth was taken out or a surgery done, they will do a bit of red and white pills for a few days or a few needles and call it good after a few days. Normally the spouse has charge of the guns during my recovery while the pistol stays in a safe without compromising the HD situation too much.

If yer sick physically you wont be out and about carrying anyhow would ya like with a busted leg or something.

If yer in the Hosptial like the VA... it will not be too difficult for the Uncle Sam to pull your records and see where they go with it.

I would not worry about it too much.

The key is staying away from shrinks who want to put pills or medicines into you that alters your mental, time, alertness and control of body. Those dont go into my body and I dont see those doctors anyhow. The only time I go out is when surgery is to fix something or if I got knocked out in a fight or something.

Ive seen patients down at the VA in the Mental health and think over the months they dont really get better. They are... stuck if such a word makes sense. At least some of them seem to be.

 

[PT1911]

well.. I know of several veterans who Claimed PTSD in order to get more money from the government... in the process, they gave up the ability to purchase a gun from a retailer... at least in Alabama anyway.. not sure of the actual written law, but I have seen them denied....

 

[JIM BOB]

I'm in N.C......NEVER stayed in a hospital except for sleep apney,one night.Don't drink,no drugs except VA meds.No record,no problem with the law till now.