Public Servant caught running 184 lbs of dope!

[444]

He isn't going to get union representation. This is a criminal matter, not something that is job related. This has nothing to do with the union.
Of course, if he loses his job (which is almost a certain thing) this is covered in the union contract. But, I feel pretty certain that a matter like this is throughly covered in the contract. Our contract stipulates that if you are charged with a felony you are suspended from work until the matter is resolved. Whether or not you are paid is at the discretion of the chief. If you are convicted, you lose your job.
By the way, I am a member of the same union as he is. Not the same local, and each local has their own contract, rules and regs, and SOPs, but I feel pretty certain that the conviction for a felony is clearly covered in their union/management agreement.

 

[TheeBadOne]

444

Thank you for the reply.
I guess to further clarify what I'm looking at, if he is convicted, then fired for the conviction, will he get union representation to fight for his job? I'm guessing by your reply the answer is no (covered in the contract).

Thanks again

TBO

 

[444]

Well, first of all he will be in prison, so he can't work even if they didn't fire him. I have no knowlege of their particular contract, SOPs, or rules and regs (I am in the same union, but not in that local) but I feel pretty certain that he will be fired and also feel that he would not recieve union representation because he clearly violated the rules of employment.
I have discussed this before on here, but often times people get the wrong impression about union representation. Sometimes the union fights a case where the person involved is obviously a scumbag. The union isn't fighting FOR the scumbag, they are fighting because management violated the contract in their actions. Obviously if both sides can make up the rules as they go along, the contract is worthless. We have had cases like that in my own local. Management fired a guy that no one wanted working here, but they did it in such a way as to violate the contract, so the union was obligated to fight it. The union officials told management point blank, no one wants this guy working here and you could easily get rid of him IF you follow the rules and proceedures for doing so.
This is really no different than the police trying to bust known criminals. Everyone may know the guy is a criminal, but they have to follow the law in busting him. They can't just hold a kangaroo court. They have to jump through all the hoops, dot all the "I"s and cross all the "T"s. On the surface this might look crazy, but establishing rules and following them is what makes a society civilized.

 

[TheeBadOne]

444

Thanks again, looks like most of us are on the same page.

 

[Don Galt]

Uh, no. We've seen illegal searches, illegal detainment, etc. Hell in the half dozen times I've been pulled over, twice it was legitimate. I drive a beater too. I have friends who've been pulled over in beaters, had their insurance card demanded, and then had the card torn up by the cop! (OR sometimes they'll just write "invalid" on it.) Now why would a cop do that? Hmmm?

Clearly there is something wrong with the ranks of "law" enforcement.

This is a nationwide phenomena, and nothing is done with it.

Hell, should a Mayor want to clean up his cities police force, he'll recieve static and resistance constantly until its election time, and then suddently the news will be filled with stories about crimes and how they could have been prevented if only the mayor had done such-and-such.

So, every year the cops become more like the SS, they asset forfietrures line their pockets and the government gets less and less control over them. And every year we get closer to the tipping point where an outright gun ban would have the full support of the cops who enthusiastically look forward to "busting" gun owners.

Maybe we're already there.

 

[Tamara]

I have friends who've been pulled over in beaters, had their insurance card demanded, and then had the card torn up by the cop! (OR sometimes they'll just write "invalid" on it.) Now why would a cop do that? Hmmm?

When these outrageous instances occurred, you surely got the badge numbers of the cops in question, right? What city was this in?

 

[LawDog]

Excuse me? Cops are tearing up vehicle insurance cards?

Cards issued by an insurance agency? I'm sorry, legal instruments held by an individual and issued by (and property of) a third party (private corporation)?

Umm. Okay.

Your friends' insurance agencies, have no doubt filed the civil actions upon being notified of these acts, yes?

LawDog

 

[Orthonym]

Cops know how to intimidate people.

I think it may be the most important cop skill. Some call it "Verbal Judo". I think it's revolting, by any name.

 

[Orthonym]

Sorry about last post, was feeling grumpy.

Now that I have looked at the intervening posts, I'm reminded of something my Dad told me today. He was in Jackson, MS at a Walmart, when he had a tire go flat. A disreputable-looking guy drove up in an old scruffy pickup and helped him change the tire. According to Dad, the guy was the famously-stinking-rich Sam Walton himself. Don't laugh, we seem to collect weird co-incidences in my family. E.g. Mary Jo Kopechne actually did work for someone who worked for my Dad at one time.

 

[LawDog]

"Verbal Judo" is a series classes taught taught by Dr. George J. Thompson on increasing the communication skills of not only Peace Officers, but also teachers and businessmen.

It has about as much to do with intimidation as nursing a baby does.

LawDog

 

[Don Galt]

The cops tearing up insurance cards, or writing invalid on them, happend in Houston Texas.

It happened in the early 90s.

Oh, and of course, when you are being threatened with jail by said cop, how do you think he will react to being asked his badge numbers?

These incidents were written up in the Houston Chronicle back then...and much worse. (Like the three drunk, off duty, out of uniform, cops in a pickup truck who forced a woman off the road, and then shot her as she called 911. Somehow, the prosecutor couldn't find it in his heart to charge such servants of the public.) Its about that time I left Houston.

I didn't mean to imply that cops were tearing up insurance cards nationwide...

The point I'm trying to get at is that as long as cops are enforcing unconstitutional laws, we have a real problem. What will happen when total gun confiscation is enacted?

 

[Don Galt]

No, but "if you don't consent to this search, I'm taking you to jail" is all about intimidation, and it is not constitutional, but courts uphold such searches all the time.

Threatenting to take someoen to the police station, or to jail, is a threat to initiate force. Any search conducted under such threat is a coerced search.

Yet this is standard operating procedure, is it not?

 

[telomerase]

Now if this happened to Rush Limbaugh, he'd just check himself into a luxury hotel/ "rehab clinic" for 30 days and he'd hear no more about it.

 

[Quartus]

Yet this is standard operating procedure, is it not?

Hmmmm. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but IIRC, SCOTUS has clearly said NO to this as probable cause. Anyone recall the cite?

 

[Orthonym]

Don Galt:

Yup, they did it to me. Didn't find nuthin, (nuthin to find) , but they might as well have sodomized me, considering how I felt afterwards. (AND TO THIS DAY!)

 

[Don Galt]

Coercing you into consenting to a search is an immoral act. It should be criminal. They belong in jail.

Anytime you subsidize an activity you'll get more of it. As long as it's cheaper (in terms of risk) for any group of people (politicians, police, etc.) to commit crime, you will get more crime out of them than you would the general population of the same size.

The local scandal is the police chief who killed his wife (and them himself) apparently after abusing her for years... the scandal is that he got away with it so long.

But I'm not surprised-- since the prosecution, judges and police are all agents of the state, and all have a common goal-- convictions-- they are not going to police each other. This is why we have no action taken after the WTO riots-- who's going to hold cops accountable for rioting? What prosecutor is going to jeapordize their ability to prosecute any future cases in that way?

And of course, allegations of wrong doing by cops are handled by an internal review board, which, amazingly, seems to discover that they are always innocent! Amazing!

Anything happen to those Tennessee guys who killed the dog last year?

But this fireman-- likely a real hero-- will get jail. The system is broken.