au01st
Member
Well I'm 6'4" with gorilla arms. So the standard LOP on the 500 is 14"? I went and shot my friend's today, along with a few of his pistols (next purchase for the night stand), and it was quite comfortable for me.
Purchasing first shotgun tomorrow, few questions
- Thread starter au01st
- Start date
- Status
Red Cent
Member
When you buy shotshells, be aware of the load. The top of the box will read
12 gauge, then the length. For practice you will want 2 3/4". Next they may have velocity instead of "dr. equiv." This terminology goes back to the blackpowder days. Get 2 3/4 dram. The black Remingtons are cheap but they will rock your world with 3 dram. If you can put up with them you might want to try them.
12 gauge, then the length. For practice you will want 2 3/4". Next they may have velocity instead of "dr. equiv." This terminology goes back to the blackpowder days. Get 2 3/4 dram. The black Remingtons are cheap but they will rock your world with 3 dram. If you can put up with them you might want to try them.
DHart
Member
Yep, at your size, a standard (14.25" LOP) is likely to be a much better choice for you than a bantam.
For defense use, stay with pretty much any brand of 2 3/4" 00 Buck and you're set. The reduced recoil 00 Buck offerings are excellent and recommended as well. Federal's Flite Control loadings are good for LE who may have to shoot at perps at longer range distances. FC keeps the shot in a tight wad for great distances. Not needed nor advised for in-home personal defense use. No need nor wisdom in going with 3" shells in a defense gun.
Last edited:
handloader357
Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2010
- Messages
- 156
I've got a setup exactly like the OP was talking about. Maverick 88 field grade came with the 28" barrel w/ a modified tube and I purchased a Mossberg 500 18.5" cylinder choke. This is my go to home defense weapon backed up by a pair of 1911's and a tricked out AR. For the investment I've got in this setup you cant go wrong. I've opted to leave the full stock for better control and the head bashing feature. For "break in" I shot a whole bunch of trap. Probably not required, but was a good excuse to blast off a few hundred rounds at the evil clay pigeons.
oneounceload
member
While your opinion, it has no basis in fact. I'm 6'3" and my guns wear anywhere from 14-1/2 to 15" depending on the gun and stock design. There are WAY too many factors in stock fit besides LOP.
DHart
Member
You're right, neither of us has any idea, for sure, what he's going to like the best. What I meant, and should have said, was that the chances are very high that a standard stock will be more comfortable for him than a Bantam!!! And he said that the 14" his friend had was quite comfortable for him... the 500 with factory synthetic stock is about 14.25" LOP.
Last edited:
oneounceload
member
Now, THAT'S the truth!...I just don't get these folks who think a kid's stock is correct and that you have to scrunch up on it - I guess some SD gun trainers think that is correct, maybe based on military M4 usage, but it isn't so - the object is to hit your target, whether clay, feather or otherwise - why would you not use the best possible fit to obtain that result?
Jason_W
Member
I'll toss in a vote for the Benelli Nova or Supernova tactical. I've had mine a few months and I love it. They're pretty affordable too.
For ammo, I'm starting to wonder if slugs might be better than buck since at HD ranges, the pattern likely won't be big enough to make buck an advantage.
For ammo, I'm starting to wonder if slugs might be better than buck since at HD ranges, the pattern likely won't be big enough to make buck an advantage.
Good call on the 500. Loaded with 00 or #1 buck it will stop anything. If you're worried about collateral damage, go look at the Box o' Truth website. He does drywall testing with various loads to show average penetration as it might be experienced in an indoors shooting environment.
The general consensus is that anything that won't go through several sheets of drywall won't be powerful enough to stop Senor Meth Head. Rule 4 of gun safety says to know your target and what lies beyond it. So if you're going to open up with that bad boy, you don't want to be pointing it in a direction where a miss could hit a non-intended target.
Personally, if there was some weird dude messing around in front of my house, I've got a lot of options that don't involve firepower. I might just grab a staff and play the whack-a-doodle game. Might grab a handgun. The shotgun pretty much guarantees that you'll be dealing with the coroner, the DA, etc. So do give that some thought.
The general consensus is that anything that won't go through several sheets of drywall won't be powerful enough to stop Senor Meth Head. Rule 4 of gun safety says to know your target and what lies beyond it. So if you're going to open up with that bad boy, you don't want to be pointing it in a direction where a miss could hit a non-intended target.
Personally, if there was some weird dude messing around in front of my house, I've got a lot of options that don't involve firepower. I might just grab a staff and play the whack-a-doodle game. Might grab a handgun. The shotgun pretty much guarantees that you'll be dealing with the coroner, the DA, etc. So do give that some thought.
au01st
Member
Well thanks for the opinions. Like I said, I shot the 500, it was comfortable. I'll be getting to try a Remington 870 tomorrow (buddy is local LE and is bringing some stuff for me to try). He said the local department now uses the 870s, but said it's really splitting hairs between that and the 500 so if one is cheaper, go with it. He's already "coached" me on the proper things to say if it ever comes to that. I did some research and saw that Alabama recently removed the "duty to retreat" clause, so that's nice to know.
I live on a farm out in the sticks, so it would be a few minutes before the police arrived if I called them (used to have one living just down the road, but he moved) and feel I'd like to be able to protect myself. Meth has gotten really bad in this area and I feel it's just a matter of time (I deal with it enough at work -retail loss prevention- that I know what they're capable of) until I have to deal with it at home. Like I said, in the past, I have kept a bat by the door, and still plan to, but I feel I want the option of full protection should it come to that.
When I thought back about my house, I realized I was only counting drywall once per wall. In reality it would be 8 sheets of drywall, lol.
I live on a farm out in the sticks, so it would be a few minutes before the police arrived if I called them (used to have one living just down the road, but he moved) and feel I'd like to be able to protect myself. Meth has gotten really bad in this area and I feel it's just a matter of time (I deal with it enough at work -retail loss prevention- that I know what they're capable of) until I have to deal with it at home. Like I said, in the past, I have kept a bat by the door, and still plan to, but I feel I want the option of full protection should it come to that.
When I thought back about my house, I realized I was only counting drywall once per wall. In reality it would be 8 sheets of drywall, lol.
Jason_W
Member
It might also be prudent to modify your dwelling in a way so that no one can break in without making a lot of noise. If you wake up to a BG standing over your bed, it's probably too late.
DHart
Member
A couple of well placed motion detector alarms are cheap (around $10 apiece) and almost guaranteed to alert you BEFORE someone gets to your (hopefully) LOCKED bedroom door. This buys you time to grab the shotgun and the cell phone... call 911 and hunker down with your 12 gauge readied toward the locked door. Better to let the BG come to papa than to try to chase him (them) down in your house where you might well be ambushed by two or three of them laying in wait for YOU.
Jason_W
Member
Yep. If there is no one in other rooms you need to protect, it's just stuff and not worth risking one's life for.
12 gauge selection...
Get the one that fits you best.
Buy used the first time. You may be surprised to see how many really great SGs are available used and for fair to really good prices if you shop wisely. Try local papers that are geared to sell items. Try pawn shops. Try word of mouth like friends that hunt or are firearms fanciers. They may have something they want to sell or know someone who does.
If possible shoot a few SGs before buying one.
In either case if you buy something that fits you well chances are you'll enjoy it and get years of reliable service out of it.
Personally I like the way a model 1300 Defender by Winchester comes to my shoulder. I like the way my eye NATURALLY lays into the stock and takes aim. Yes, you must aim with a 12 gauge SG. Forget about that BS "just point it in the general direction and you'll hit your target..." That's BS you must aim.
Keep it clean, keep it handy and use it, use it, use it.
Best of luck brother!
Get the one that fits you best.
Buy used the first time. You may be surprised to see how many really great SGs are available used and for fair to really good prices if you shop wisely. Try local papers that are geared to sell items. Try pawn shops. Try word of mouth like friends that hunt or are firearms fanciers. They may have something they want to sell or know someone who does.
If possible shoot a few SGs before buying one.
In either case if you buy something that fits you well chances are you'll enjoy it and get years of reliable service out of it.
Personally I like the way a model 1300 Defender by Winchester comes to my shoulder. I like the way my eye NATURALLY lays into the stock and takes aim. Yes, you must aim with a 12 gauge SG. Forget about that BS "just point it in the general direction and you'll hit your target..." That's BS you must aim.
Keep it clean, keep it handy and use it, use it, use it.
Best of luck brother!
Last edited:
oneounceload
member
Only true if you're shooting it like a rifle - shotguns are pointed, not aimed in most circumstances (slugs and turkeys excepted), because the target is dynamic and not static
au01st
Member
Yeah, apparently I'll have a few "seized" weapons to try tomorrow, so we'll see what feels good. Plenty of pawn shops in the area so figure I will go around town on Tuesday when I'm off work and see what kind of deals there are to be had.
shotguns are pointed, not aimed in most circumstances
You can WORD it anyway you like. Anyway that makes you feel comfortable. But anyone that's shot a shotgun much if at all knows it is AIMED at the target, IF you want to maintain control and hit that target... AIM.
You can WORD it anyway you like. Anyway that makes you feel comfortable. But anyone that's shot a shotgun much if at all knows it is AIMED at the target, IF you want to maintain control and hit that target... AIM.
Deus Machina
Member
As far as aiming goes, 'aiming' and 'pointing' a shotgun should be the same thing, as I've been taught.
Align the sights--or the bead--and a well-fitting shotgun should largely follow along where you want it to hit. It becomes an instinctive thing.
As far as the gun itself, the 88 is a good choice. It's almost literally a 500 they put less time into. Consider it the 870 Express opposed to the Wingmaster, using Remington as an example.
It won't need broken in, but will smooth up.
My personal one is a 20" 7-shot that is soon receiving a bantam stock. The original would be fine for hunting, but I like my SD guns in tighter.
I'm seriously considering doing some smithing on it (I'm a machinist of sorts) and dropping one round, because no one makes my ideal: an 18.5" shotgun with a full-length tube.
Align the sights--or the bead--and a well-fitting shotgun should largely follow along where you want it to hit. It becomes an instinctive thing.
As far as the gun itself, the 88 is a good choice. It's almost literally a 500 they put less time into. Consider it the 870 Express opposed to the Wingmaster, using Remington as an example.
It won't need broken in, but will smooth up.
My personal one is a 20" 7-shot that is soon receiving a bantam stock. The original would be fine for hunting, but I like my SD guns in tighter.
I'm seriously considering doing some smithing on it (I'm a machinist of sorts) and dropping one round, because no one makes my ideal: an 18.5" shotgun with a full-length tube.
Pointed, not aimed
Shotguns are pointed, not aimed.
When I aim, I miss!
In a home defense scenario when pointing at a stationary object one would "aim" a shotgun.
Otherwise when one is using a shotgun as intended the weapon is pointed, not aimed. IE: the target is moving either feathered critters or those evil clay discs. Since our OP also mentioned hunting, it's an important point. This is where gun fit becomes paramount. If you "aim" a shotgun at moving targets, you will miss.
Shotguns are pointed, not aimed.
When I aim, I miss!
In a home defense scenario when pointing at a stationary object one would "aim" a shotgun.
Otherwise when one is using a shotgun as intended the weapon is pointed, not aimed. IE: the target is moving either feathered critters or those evil clay discs. Since our OP also mentioned hunting, it's an important point. This is where gun fit becomes paramount. If you "aim" a shotgun at moving targets, you will miss.
Wal Mart $4.67 a box of 25 in glass case that's $18.68 per hundred, no feeding of ejecting problems.
Shotgun Fit rules. Stock lenght tooooo short would ( Ooo well you explain it to them oneounceload for the hunderd billionth time & good luck)
Maybe aim with poor fit
point with fitted shotgun..........Practice ...
Shotgun Fit rules. Stock lenght tooooo short would ( Ooo well you explain it to them oneounceload for the hunderd billionth time & good luck)
Maybe aim with poor fit
point with fitted shotgun..........Practice ...
DHart
Member
I hear ya! Mossberg and Remington are missing the boat without making full-length. one-piece mag tubes on 18.5" guns.
But if you don't mind going from an 18.5" to an 18", you can have a full-length, one-piece mag tube and 8-shots on tap before a reload! That's one reason the 1300 Defenders are my "go-to-bump-in-the-night" shotguns. Fantastic guns.
sshotguns are pointed, not aimed in most circumstances
This is getting funny and off the point so I promise that this is the last thing I post.
YOU SAY POTATO I SAY POTATO..
Either way we say it, I see that ultimately we're saying the same thing.
YES when shooting clays I AIM ahead of the clay I want to hit. You might call that pointing, I might call that aiming. Ultimately we're saying the same thing.
As for those 1300 Defender pictures I have the one setup in wood straight from Winchester. When at the range I aim, Oops I point it at what I want to hit and have yet to miss. To be clear, I look down the barrel and align that little bead at the tip of the barrel, the end which the projectile comes out of just to be clear, align it with the chamber end of the barrel so they form a single straight line aimed or pointed at that place where I want the projectiles to hit. And without a doubt I always place what comes out of the barrel right smack dab on what I wanted to hit. So aiming or pointing I'll concede and call it whatever the popular consesus decides, is what I do. If it's a target attached to a wall, then I aim-point directly at that target on the wall. If it's a clay flying through the air I aim or point slightly ahead of that clay I want to hit. Although I'm not a world class clay guy I dove hunt and hit more dove than I miss.
By the way a great dove recipe is... Oops! This is the wrong place for recipes.
This is getting funny and off the point so I promise that this is the last thing I post.
YOU SAY POTATO I SAY POTATO..
Either way we say it, I see that ultimately we're saying the same thing.
YES when shooting clays I AIM ahead of the clay I want to hit. You might call that pointing, I might call that aiming. Ultimately we're saying the same thing.
As for those 1300 Defender pictures I have the one setup in wood straight from Winchester. When at the range I aim, Oops I point it at what I want to hit and have yet to miss. To be clear, I look down the barrel and align that little bead at the tip of the barrel, the end which the projectile comes out of just to be clear, align it with the chamber end of the barrel so they form a single straight line aimed or pointed at that place where I want the projectiles to hit. And without a doubt I always place what comes out of the barrel right smack dab on what I wanted to hit. So aiming or pointing I'll concede and call it whatever the popular consesus decides, is what I do. If it's a target attached to a wall, then I aim-point directly at that target on the wall. If it's a clay flying through the air I aim or point slightly ahead of that clay I want to hit. Although I'm not a world class clay guy I dove hunt and hit more dove than I miss.
By the way a great dove recipe is... Oops! This is the wrong place for recipes.
Deus Machina
Member
Well, well. I only use 18.5" because it's common to make sure of the legality.
I'll have to check prices on those 1300's now...
I'll have to check prices on those 1300's now...
Two items I'd like to point out, one, if you've never shot a pistol grip shotgun you'll be in for a nice wrist snapping surprise, I tried it out and went back to a standard stock, the grip puts your wrist at an awkward angle and you'll get some nice pain out of it.
Second, if you get the 590 you can also mount a bayonet (AR type) for the "looks cool" factor, don't know the legalities of where you are but in AZ you're good to go.
Second, if you get the 590 you can also mount a bayonet (AR type) for the "looks cool" factor, don't know the legalities of where you are but in AZ you're good to go.
DHart
Member
Deus Machina... Winchester 1300 Defenders haven't been made since around 2006 or so. But you can still find nearly new and even NIB examples on Gunbroker and in gun-pawn shops. I found and bought two nearly new and one NIB example on GB for $299 to $325. And found another NIB one for a good friend who was so impressed with mine, decided they had to have one.... also on GB. Be patient. Keep looking. Expect to pay between $300-$325 for a great condition to LNIB and even NIB. They're out there to be had and I've got my three, so I won't be bidding against you! 
The FN Tactical Police Shotgun is the same gun as the 1300, but they're fetching in the neighborhood of $1000 for them. I'd stick with a 1300 Defender and pocket the change!
These are arguably the top shelf defense shotgun at 18" with an 8-shot capacity and one-piece, full-length mag tube. NO EXTENSIONS to be fussing with!
The action is really quick and smooth. With all the Mossberg 500/590 and Remington 870 hoopla (yes, they're great guns too!), the Winchester 1300 Defender is not on most people's radar... until they get the word or handle one! And don't worry, almost anything you might want to tack onto a defense gun can be tacked onto a 1300 Defender. Better yet, keep the modifications and tack-ons to the bare minimum! A light and a sling and you're good to go! 8-rounds on tap before a reload means that as an ordinary citizen looking for home defense, you are not at all likely to need extra shell holders and a bunch of extra stuff hanging off the shotgun which often only serves to make you less nimble and slow you down!
As for pistol grips... two of my 1300 Defenders were originally pistol grip only versions. I bought them anyway knowing that I had a bunch of options for buttstocks. If they're in top condition, buy 'em anyway and put a stock on 'em. Easy and sweet deal! If you really want a pistol grip version, put the Speedfeed Birdshead grip on it and DITCH the factory pistol grip... they SUCK!
As for bayonets... well, if you think you're going to go to Afghanistan for hand to hand combat... consider it. For HD, forget it. If your shotgun squanks out on you, transition to another shotgun. Or a pistol. Maneuvering around your house with a bayonet on the end of your shotgun is a bad idea! In my not-so-humble opinion, if you need to use a bayonet, you're in really, really desperate shape.
The FN Tactical Police Shotgun is the same gun as the 1300, but they're fetching in the neighborhood of $1000 for them. I'd stick with a 1300 Defender and pocket the change!
These are arguably the top shelf defense shotgun at 18" with an 8-shot capacity and one-piece, full-length mag tube. NO EXTENSIONS to be fussing with!
The action is really quick and smooth. With all the Mossberg 500/590 and Remington 870 hoopla (yes, they're great guns too!), the Winchester 1300 Defender is not on most people's radar... until they get the word or handle one! And don't worry, almost anything you might want to tack onto a defense gun can be tacked onto a 1300 Defender. Better yet, keep the modifications and tack-ons to the bare minimum! A light and a sling and you're good to go! 8-rounds on tap before a reload means that as an ordinary citizen looking for home defense, you are not at all likely to need extra shell holders and a bunch of extra stuff hanging off the shotgun which often only serves to make you less nimble and slow you down!
As for pistol grips... two of my 1300 Defenders were originally pistol grip only versions. I bought them anyway knowing that I had a bunch of options for buttstocks. If they're in top condition, buy 'em anyway and put a stock on 'em. Easy and sweet deal! If you really want a pistol grip version, put the Speedfeed Birdshead grip on it and DITCH the factory pistol grip... they SUCK!
As for bayonets... well, if you think you're going to go to Afghanistan for hand to hand combat... consider it. For HD, forget it. If your shotgun squanks out on you, transition to another shotgun. Or a pistol. Maneuvering around your house with a bayonet on the end of your shotgun is a bad idea! In my not-so-humble opinion, if you need to use a bayonet, you're in really, really desperate shape.
Last edited:
- Status
