Q about "wash & wax"

[Guy48065]

I'm embracing the "wet tumbling revolution" and have built my own tumbler that holds 1.5 gal. I've reviewed recipes here & on YouTube and condensed it down to the most popular components & quantities.
Which is, for 1 gal of wash:
1 gal HOT water
1 Tbs Dawn or Armor-All Wash & Wax
1/2 tsp Lemi Shine (I use a Lee powder dipper)
2 lbs SS pins

My first batch of dirty range 45acp came out awesome after only 1 hour of agitation, using Dawn.
My 2nd batch of 20 year old 30-06 cases was run for only 30 minutes with Wash & Wax and came out about the same (this was intended to be a pre-clean just to get them clean enough for decapping).

The questions:

Does the wax in the wash water prevent tarnish in long-term storage?
Is it "slicker" resizing? (Carbide dies, no lube)
Should I rinse?
Is there any downside to the wax INSIDE the case?
Why is Armor-All usually suggested?
If long tarnish-free storage is the goal is there a better choice? Maybe a final rinse in something?

 

[WeekendReloader]

- Wash & Wax leaves a coating to help slow the tarnish of clean brass. If you use Dawn, the brass is clean, but without a 'wax' coating and will tarnish quicker.

- I use a quick spritz of lube on my pistol cases for sizing. It's probably not needed, but the press operates very smooth with the lube. I always lube rifle brass.

- Yes, rinse well to remove the Lemishine acid.

- I haven't had or read about any issues with wash & wax inside the case. The coating is so thin it is not an issue.

- Armor-All is suggested because it was one of the first products that someone tried. I have used whichever wash&wax product that was on sale from Walmart and had the same results. The key is that it washes and waxes. The ones that say they have Carnauba wax in them tend to resist tarnish a little longer. Armor-All Wash & Wax has carnauba

- I have brass wet-tumbled in 'Zip wax'. After 5 years, it still looks pretty shiny. Not fresh out of the tumbler shiny, but still pretty darn good. The key is to keep it dry. Some people run their brass in a dry tumbler and add Nu-Finish car polish. This seems to keep the brass the most shiny for the longest time. The Nu-Finish is polishing and depositing a wax coating. Remember, the wet-tumble process is not really polishing anything, it is cleaning the surface of the brass by clanking metal to metal. A dry tumbler actually polishes with the soft corn cob media. With that said, I only wet tumble with SS pins and I am satisfied with the results.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Hmm, my procedure is very similar to the recipe that you describe, even down to the Lee Powder Dipper.
I use Citric Acid which is the same thing as Lemi Shine.
Once for S&G's I sized\deprimed a bunch of 45 Auto to make it easier to see if they were large or small primer pockets.
To check the size I ran a pocket brush through all the pockets, easiest way to tell, then had one of my grandkids use an adjustable hole gauge set for LPP size.
Then threw all the large pocket brass into an ultrasonic tank with mild cleanser and citric acid.
It didn't seem to make any difference.

Carbide dies I found depend on the brass wall thickness. 45 Auto is so thin that I was ripping or crumpling down one side of the brass, maybe one case in 10 when seating. Started to lube then that stopped entirely.
With shouldered brass and carbide I lube, with 9mm and 357 Mag I don't.
Your results may vary.

 

[Blue68f100]

I'm embracing the "wet tumbling revolution" and have built my own tumbler that holds 1.5 gal. I've reviewed recipes here & on YouTube and condensed it down to the most popular components & quantities.
Which is, for 1 gal of wash:
1 gal HOT water
1 Tbs Dawn or Armor-All Wash & Wax
1/2 tsp Lemi Shine (I use a Lee powder dipper)
2 lbs SS pins

My first batch of dirty range 45acp came out awesome after only 1 hour of agitation, using Dawn.
My 2nd batch of 20 year old 30-06 cases was run for only 30 minutes with Wash & Wax and came out about the same (this was intended to be a pre-clean just to get them clean enough for decapping).

The questions:

Does the wax in the wash water prevent tarnish in long-term storage?
Is it "slicker" resizing? (Carbide dies, no lube)
Should I rinse?
Is there any downside to the wax INSIDE the case?
Why is Armor-All usually suggested?
If long tarnish-free storage is the goal is there a better choice? Maybe a final rinse in something?

The worst thing you can do is not use enough W&W or Dawn. If you notice that your pins are dirty, your not using enough soap. It's best to be over than under. The polymer wax left on the brass can and does slow down the tarnishing process. I have some 45acp brass that was cleaned 5 yrs ago that still has a shine but not quite as bright as a fresh batch. As for as needing lube for sizing it's a user preference. I use a shot of OS on all my brass that goes through the brass feeder on my AP. Other wise I use Imperial Sizing Wax on rifle and SS. When running a AP you want smooth operations and the OS gives you that and it does not need to be removed afterwards since it's not sticky, aka a wax. I wear Nitrile gloves when dealing with clean brass that's going into storage prior to loading. This is to keep the oils from your skin off the freshly cleaned brass. The acids in your skin will accelerate the tarnishing process.

Use a Universal Deprimer die on dirty brass then clean afterwards. Saves you a step and time.

 

[griff383]

Ditto, pretty much the same process and experience as everyone else has already posted.

I'll add though, that I have 2 drums a 3 gal and a 1.8 gal. The larger one I use for bulk cleaning with no pins, just soap (not W&W) and lemi shine to get the gunk off so I can deprime or prep or rinse off lube or whatever. When I'm ready to load brass, I do the smaller one with the pins because it cleans better and makes it shinier. Shiny objects rule BTW

 

[rfwobbly]

+1
I found that Dawn was not required with Wash & Wax.

However, the Wash & Wax coating is not as thick and although the tarnish is retarded, it certainly doesn't last as long as when dry tumbling with NuFinish. For ultimate shine retention you might want to dry tumble the finished cartridges for 15 minutes or so.

Hope this helps.

PS. For you untra-sensitive types I'm not "name calling", it's only delayed.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I’m gonna go through my process, admittedly not the fastest, but works for me.

Starting with filthy range brass. Hottest water possible then a squirt of Dawn. Tumble for an hour. Dump water including putting the screen on the container and getting the last filthy water out. Then repeat 3Xs. Last fill is a brass cleaner I got from Franklin Arsenal.

After drying, I lightly lube with Hornady one shot for straight wall cases, heavier for bottle neck cases.

After decapping/sizing, I bathe em again for 2 hours in hot water and the brass cleaner to get the lube off and clean primer pockets.

I’ve seen some great ideas, that are faster and cheaper that I told myself I was going to try but it works so I haven’t changed...yet.

I even purchased universal decapping dies to get the primers out before washing but haven’t done that yet.

I tried loading after sizing without the second wash but had 2 problems; primers seated inconsistently so I was pulling cases regularly to check to make sure the primer was seated properly, although Hornady says “One Shot” won’t contaminate the primer or powder, when I measured powder charges a few grains would stick in the case so the measurement wasn’t accurate.

The second bath eliminated both those problems.

 

[WeekendReloader]

I’m gonna go through my process, admittedly not the fastest, but works for me.

Starting with filthy range brass. Hottest water possible then a squirt of Dawn. Tumble for an hour. Dump water including putting the screen on the container and getting the last filthy water out. Then repeat 3Xs. Last fill is a brass cleaner I got from Franklin Arsenal.

After drying, I lightly lube with Hornady one shot for straight wall cases, heavier for bottle neck cases.

After decapping/sizing, I bathe em again for 2 hours in hot water and the brass cleaner to get the lube off and clean primer pockets.

I’ve seen some great ideas, that are faster and cheaper that I told myself I was going to try but it works so I haven’t changed...yet.

I even purchased universal decapping dies to get the primers out before washing but haven’t done that yet.

I tried loading after sizing without the second wash but had 2 problems; primers seated inconsistently so I was pulling cases regularly to check to make sure the primer was seated properly, although Hornady says “One Shot” won’t contaminate the primer or powder, when I measured powder charges a few grains would stick in the case so the measurement wasn’t accurate.

The second bath eliminated both those problems.

That is a pretty lengthy process.

I deprime my fired brass along with grungy range pickup. Toss them all into the tumbler with W&W, Lemishine and S pins. Tumble for 45mins - 1 hour. Drain, rinse well, air dry. That's it. Ready to load again.
I use LEE resizing lube, 1oz dissolved into 10oz of 70% isopropyl alcohol in a spray bottle. A quick spritz is all it takes for pistol cases. A few good sprays for rifle brass. No need to clean it off before loading.

 

[Dudedog]

Does the wax in the wash water prevent tarnish in long-term storage? Maybe not prevent but it sure helps
Is it "slicker" resizing? (Carbide dies, no lube) Wash and wax leaves the brass "slicker" than Dawn alone, but a little lube never hurts
Should I rinse? Yes
Is there any downside to the wax INSIDE the case? Not that I am aware of
Why is Armor-All usually suggested?

I have used whichever wash&wax product that was on sale from Walmart and had the same results

I agree

The car gets what's on sale and the cases get what I am using for the car. In my area Turtle seems to be on sale the most.
I have used 3 or 4 flavors all seem about the same, just make sure it is Wash + Wax not just wash.

Be generous with the wash and wax I don't measure but dump in a couple oz, you would have to try real hard to use to much, not enough is bad.
I use Citric Acid instead of lemishine, it is important not to use to much acid. I use about a .45 case full, depends on you water PH, higher PH water = more acid.

I was buying citric acid in the grocery store, small bottle $6-7.
I just ordered 5lbs from Amazon $15, that should be enough to last for years.{maybe the rest of my life}..... (1lb is $10 so for $5 more I got another 4lbs.)


https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Cit...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

(or search citric acid) It is also used for canning.

My range has nasty 40-80grit dirt, so I rinse the brass and then do a quick 1/2 pass before depriming, then I run another 1 hour pass. I use pins in both passes.
Rinse everything well afterwards, cases, pins, drum.
Every now and then I just run the pins by themselves for 10 min to make sure they are clean.

 

[Tilos]

I have 4 dollar-store buckets for rinsing, the 1st 3 have plain water, the 4th and final rinse has water and a HEAVY dose of Armor-All Wash and Wax.
I store that 4th bucket water/wash and wax solution in a jug to be used over and over and over....
This is mostly for pistol brass and I never need to lube it for sizing, the wash and wax is the lube.
jmt,

.

 

[shamfrod]

Recently I have tried first tumbling with dish soap and lemi shine for an hour or so to clean the cases well. Then I dump the dirty water and fill with clean water and wash and wax, then tumble for 15 mins or so. Cases are really clean and hopefully will have less tarnish with the last step of wash and wax.

 

[Guy48065]

So some of y'all are not rinsing after the Wash & Wax. I really can't imagine it makes any difference functionally. Maybe a rinse in clean water--or even better in distilled water--would give you shinier spot-free cases.
Some car ppl are obsessive enough to rinse in distilled water for ultimate shine. Meh.

 

[Guy48065]

The other day as I was browsing the car care shelves at Walmart (Armor All Wash & Wax $4.77 vs $7.99 @ Autozone) I was wondering if one of the latest "ceramic" coatings (pushing wax out of popularity) might be the bomb for tarnish resistance.

 

[Tilos]

So some of y'all are not rinsing after the Wash & Wax. I really can't imagine it makes any difference functionally. Maybe a rinse in clean water--or even better in distilled water--would give you shinier spot-free cases.
Some car ppl are obsessive enough to rinse in distilled water for ultimate shine. Meh.

The need for "special" rinse water would be based on the condition of your tap water.
The tumbling water with W+W is full of smooge and needs to be rinsed off, not just drained off, it DOES make a difference, not just "imagined" .
KISS keep it simple stu...,well you know the rest.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/q-about-wash-wax.884846/#post-11849711
jmo,
.