Questiion regarding S&W revolver frames

[BobWright]

This much I know:

The Model No. 1 (Smith & Wesson) was a tip-up revolver in .22 rimfire. Next was the Model No. 2, a six shot .32 rimfire, also a tip-up. Then came the Model No. 1 1/2, a five shot tip-up model.

After these came the Model No. 3, a top break six shot revolver. All models; the American, the Russian, and the Schofield, were dubbed the Model No. 3.

There was a top-break .38 caliber model, first with spur trigger, then with a more conventional trigger guard. This model numbe of this gun escapes me.

With the introduction of the hand ejector models, the model designation was changed from numerical to alphabetical.

Oh ye of great (S&W) knowledge, how far am I from the correct model designations? And what was the model designation of the .38 Top-Breaks?


Bob Wright

P.S. I have read that in the early part of the Twentieth Century, the model designation was an alpha-numeric one, with a letter designating frame and number the bore size. So a .44 Special hand ejector, would have the Model number of N-430, while a target version would be N-430T. The inadequacy of this would be in a .44 Magnum, as it would be an N-430T also.

 

[reddog81]

According to Wikipedia the .38 caliber Single Action was based on the Model 2. The 1st and 2nd model of the single action lacked a trigger guard and the 3rd model Single Action had a trigger guard. In 1880 they came out with the Double Action which was also based upon the model 2. The Double Action was available in .32 and .38 which both appear to be based upon the Model 2 action even though the .32 was much smaller in size. These Double Action models were sold until around 1920.

I have a couple of the .38 DA's and .32 SA's. I haven't ever really heard of them referred to by a specific frame size.

FWIW 44 Magnum didn't come out until the mid 1950's so I don't think distinguishing between .44 Special and Magnum was much of a concern in the early 1900's

 

[BobWright]

Wikipwdia is grossly wrong. the Model No. 2 was a tip-up model. Google the S&W Model No. 2.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_No._2_Armywikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_No._2_Army

Wikipedia even contradicts itself. The Model No. 2 is a .32 R.F. Tip-up revolver.

Bob Wright

 

[BobWright]

According to Wikipedia the .38 caliber Single Action was based on the Model 2. The 1st and 2nd model of the single action lacked a trigger guard and the 3rd model Single Action had a trigger guard. In 1880 they came out with the Double Action which was also based upon the model 2. The Double Action was available in .32 and .38 which both appear to be based upon the Model 2 action even though the .32 was much smaller in size. These Double Action models were sold until around 1920.

I have a couple of the .38 DA's and .32 SA's. I haven't ever really heard of them referred to by a specific frame size.

FWIW 44 Magnum didn't come out until the mid 1950's so I don't think distinguishing between .44 Special and Magnum was much of a concern in the early 1900's

If you have a DA it certainly is not a No.2 as these were all spur trigger, tip-up models.

I am aware of the birthdate of the .44 Magnum, I was just using that as an example of the inadequacy of that model numbering system.

Bob Wright

 

[reddog81]

Wikipwdia is grossly wrong. the Model No. 2 was a tip-up model. Google the S&W Model No. 2.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_No._2_Armywikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_No._2_Army

Wikipedia even contradicts itself. The Model No. 2 is a .32 R.F. Tip-up revolver.

Bob Wright

I've always just heard them as being referred to as .38 Double Actions. It is certainly possible Wikipedia is wrong. I wonder what the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson has to say...

 

[reddog81]

SCSW page 80 starts the listing for .38 Frame Model Number Two. This section includes the .38 Single action 1st Model Aka Baby Russian, .38 SA Model 2, 2nd Issue, .38 SA 3rd Model (model 1891) and then goes to the Double Actions. .38 DA 1st through 5th and the Perfected and then onto the .38 Safety Hammerless revolvers. All included under .38 Frame Model Number 2.

On page 88 it moves onto the .44 Frame Model number 3.

 

[BobWright]

So there are two distinctly different revolvers designated as the Model No. 2? Seems somewhat confusing.

So the original Model No. 2 is a .32 rimfire tip-up, and the second Model No. 2 is a .38 S&W top break?

Bob Wright

 

[reddog81]

So there are two distinctly different revolvers designated as the Model No. 2? Seems somewhat confusing.

So the original Model No. 2 is a .32 rimfire tip-up, and the second Model No. 2 is a .38 S&W top break?

Bob Wright

Yeah, it looks like there is the Model No 2 Army and the Model number 2 .38 Caliber... Seems like using any other number would be less confusing but I guess marketing was an after thought back then.

 

[Dave T]

Their model numbering is no more (in fact less) confusing than caliber designations back then. Just look at all the "38s" offered in the 19th Century. One of them was even a 40 caliber, the 38 WCF. (smile)

Dave