BigJakeJ1s
Member
Clark has been poo-pooing CZ-52's for years now....
Be careful reloading for any gun, and enjoy your CZ-52.
Andy
Be careful reloading for any gun, and enjoy your CZ-52.
Andy
question about 7.62x25 from a non-reloader
- Thread starter Ivy Mike
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R.W.Dale
Member
For once though I actually agree with Clark. I've loaded for both the CZ and the TT33. The CZ would cycle the weakest 32acp level loads that wouldn't even open the slide on the Tok. I've seen far too many pics of bent and cracked cz-52's in my researching of this subject. It's become my opinion that the cz should ONLY be fed commercial loadings or mild to midrange handloads. Much like the FN in this thread the CZ-52 is a handgun that with factory loadings is already pushed to the limits of what it can handle in terms of pressure and timing. These are handguns that you DON'T want to step outside the norm with handloads
Funderb
Member
krochus must remember my posts from the 5.7 kaboom thread.
The ability to operate the slide is not a test of weakness of the pistol. That can be solved with a stiffer mainspring.
The ability to operate the slide is not a test of weakness of the pistol. That can be solved with a stiffer mainspring.
Clark
Member
And it is working too
1) Sierra capitulated that they just printed that they read.
2) Accurate Arms has rescinded their hot CZ52 loads published in May 2000, and offers the new wimp CZ52 load data for free.
Homer Simpson once remarked, "Who would have thought that reading and writing would pay off?"
This is one of those gun culture moments when we wonder, "Who would have thought that test data and engineering calculations would come from the consumer sector to change publications?"
R.W.Dale
Member
but that still doesn't solve the problems with the thin chamber, iffy metallurgy and uneven roller lockup. My point was that even with factory ammo a CZ-52 is slowly but surely beating itself to death.
There have been 2 separate occasions where on another forum I passed this warning to posters wanting to hotrod 7.62x25 in a CZ 52 only to have them posting about a busted pistol a couple weeks later.
If you want a taste of when the 7.62x25 round can do when loaded to it's full potential the then CZ isn't the handgun for you.
There have been 2 separate occasions where on another forum I passed this warning to posters wanting to hotrod 7.62x25 in a CZ 52 only to have them posting about a busted pistol a couple weeks later.
If you want a taste of when the 7.62x25 round can do when loaded to it's full potential the then CZ isn't the handgun for you.
The 7.62x25mm will pierce some body armor. And it will pierce more body armor than a 9mm.
Well, since you brought up that Box o' Truth test, I'd like to point out a few things.
- He doesn't list what type of 7.62x25 Tok he's using. Could be the hopped up Czech stuff, could be Romanian steel-jacket, could be WWB, could be steel cored armor piercing for all I know. Not sure, and I'm not going to the trouble to ask him. Regardless, the bullet (~85-90gr surely) is probably hitting 1400+ fps.
- 9x19 90gr can be loaded to similar velocity, safely, out of a handgun. (see post by the esteemed Zak Smith http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=5035 using a CZ75B) That's a better apples to apples comparison, besides the larger diameter of 9x19, and better selection of bullets, and shorter OAL, and greater number of guns to choose from, etc.
The Russians have not gone back to that round or a derivative for armor-piercing duty. Max P. can correct me if I'm wrong.
7.62x25 Tokarev, one of the neatest rounds ever to be made obsolete.
To the OP's question in this zombie thread: I have a friend who takes .223 Remington once-fired brass, blows the neck out, loads it with a 7mm rifle bullet, fires it through a custom Thompson Center barrel. There's probably a name for this, but I'm not into reloading enough to know it. Anyway, the result is a heavier, slower bullet. It's not hitting 3000fps obviously, but it's still moving at rifle velocities. I know that's not quite the same comparison, but if I understand correctly it's velocity that gives 7.62x25 is penetrating ability. Slowing it down with a heavier rifle bullet doesn't seem useful.
only1asterisk had it right early on.
jm
Well, since you brought up that Box o' Truth test, I'd like to point out a few things.
- He doesn't list what type of 7.62x25 Tok he's using. Could be the hopped up Czech stuff, could be Romanian steel-jacket, could be WWB, could be steel cored armor piercing for all I know. Not sure, and I'm not going to the trouble to ask him. Regardless, the bullet (~85-90gr surely) is probably hitting 1400+ fps.
- 9x19 90gr can be loaded to similar velocity, safely, out of a handgun. (see post by the esteemed Zak Smith http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=5035 using a CZ75B) That's a better apples to apples comparison, besides the larger diameter of 9x19, and better selection of bullets, and shorter OAL, and greater number of guns to choose from, etc.
The Russians have not gone back to that round or a derivative for armor-piercing duty. Max P. can correct me if I'm wrong.
7.62x25 Tokarev, one of the neatest rounds ever to be made obsolete.
To the OP's question in this zombie thread: I have a friend who takes .223 Remington once-fired brass, blows the neck out, loads it with a 7mm rifle bullet, fires it through a custom Thompson Center barrel. There's probably a name for this, but I'm not into reloading enough to know it. Anyway, the result is a heavier, slower bullet. It's not hitting 3000fps obviously, but it's still moving at rifle velocities. I know that's not quite the same comparison, but if I understand correctly it's velocity that gives 7.62x25 is penetrating ability. Slowing it down with a heavier rifle bullet doesn't seem useful.
only1asterisk had it right early on.
jm
Clark
Member
I have got some real performance from the 7.62x25mm by loading it with 110 gr FMJ bullets and Power Pistol. I built a 1903 Turk Mauser in the cartridge with a Remington 30-06 take off barrel. I also put a 308 sniper barrel on a Tokarev pistol in this cartridge and mounted a rifle scope.
I have got some real performance from the Tokarev pistol by reaming out an aftermarket 9x19mm barrel to 9x23mm, 158 gr XTP bullets and Power Pistol. The amount of recoil the little pistol can make is a shocker.
I have got some real performance from the Tokarev pistol by reaming out an aftermarket 9x19mm barrel to 9x23mm, 158 gr XTP bullets and Power Pistol. The amount of recoil the little pistol can make is a shocker.
BigJakeJ1s
Member
Clark wrote:
Can you imagine what one of today's anti-gun juries would do if someone sued Sierra or Accurate, and they found out (via a google, no less) that some self-proclaimed expert had "warned them" about the "weakness" of CZ-52s? This was not an engineering or scientific decision, but one made by their lawyers.
Reading and writing are generally necessary but not sufficient for intelligence.
Andy
Can you imagine what one of today's anti-gun juries would do if someone sued Sierra or Accurate, and they found out (via a google, no less) that some self-proclaimed expert had "warned them" about the "weakness" of CZ-52s? This was not an engineering or scientific decision, but one made by their lawyers.
Reading and writing are generally necessary but not sufficient for intelligence.
Andy
Clark
Member
When my son and I compete, the looser, in a effort to mock poor sportsmanship, yells, "You got lucky!"
Funderb
Member
well, your original post was 90% OT, so I don't think anyone is a real winner here. Except the dinosaur of a post reviving itself with your help.
Don't tell people that cz52s are inherently dangerous, it's not true.
Don't tell people that cz52s are inherently dangerous, it's not true.
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