Ok question about plate armor

[Double Naught Spy]

Steel plates will stop heavy and slow, and mulitple hits. Small and fast, like xm192 will zip right through them. I've tested steel plates that stopped .308 and 7.62x39, and certain high speed lite weight 5.56 rounds went clean through.

You have made gross generalizations about steel without consideration for the hardness of steel. AR500 steel, such as we use for our targets, will stop non AP rounds up to .50 BMG at just 3/8" thickness and will stop any high speed light 5.56 rounds as well as M855 with the steel penetrator.

XM192 ammo? XM192 is a 7.62mm short case blank.
XM193 ammo is 5.56 and is 55 gr. AR500 3/8" thick plates will stop it all day long. We shoot a lot of it at steet target at my range and have never had it penetrate a target with a hardness of AR500.

You'll need to do research at forums that have members that have tested plates. The info is out there.

I don't seem to be able to find any such tests that verify your claims, especially that light and fast 5.56 will penetrate steel armor that stops .308 and 7.62x39. If anything, light and fast 5.56 is less apt to penetrate than .308 and 7.62x39.

Ceramic stops both, but shatters, so you can forget about mulitple hits.

Actually, this isn't necessarily true. A least some ceramic plates, like soft armor, can take multiple hits so long as the hits aren't in the saem spot. http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Armor_Accessories_Rifle_Protection.shtml#Ceramic

 

[essayons21]

Some plates are stand alone, some team up with kevlar. The best plates are a sandwich of steel and polymer. They can stop quite an assortment, but are expensive, and illegal for citizens in the United Socialist States of America.

Care to cite that statement? I am aware of some local and state laws, but haven't heard of any federal law against possession of body armor of any type.

 

[daorhgih]

"Better heavy than dead"

At 3#± and 10"x12", I have one Guardian 4SAS-7 plate I'm
selling, and am keeping another. NIJ level IV stand-alone.
How good is it? Guardian Hard Armor Plate, dob 1/7/10.
Asking proof-test here, selling at appropriate page here. DAO.

 

[killchain]

What does soft body armor plus two rifle plates weigh today? What is the weight "penalty" to our troops? Are there any tactical situations where speed and agility are needed more than the possible (if you're shot on the plate) benefit of wearing armor?

It's horrendous. The amount of troops coming home with musculoskeletal problems is staggering.

I humped that crap for four years. After my vest, SAAPI (don't forget the side plates too,) extra crotch/neck/shoulder kevlar, full rifleman kit (7 magazines, 210 rounds,) grenade load (8 HEDP 40mm rounds,) 3 liters of water, MICH helmet, breaching shotgun...

my vest weighed 76lb. Yeah. Seventy Six pounds. That's running with a ten year old on your back for four years.

No wonder I have a bad back.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Care to cite that statement? I am aware of some local and state laws, but haven't heard of any federal law against possession of body armor of any type.

Right. There is no federal law banning ownership of body armor for the whole of the US by non-felons. The James Guelff and Chris McCurley Body Armor Act of 2002 did make it a crime for felons to own body armor and this was upheld in the Ninth US Circuit court in 2010. http://www.metnews.com/articles/2010/alde020410.htm

 

[Travis McGee]

Killchain: A buddy who is a contractor related the following story from southern Iraq a few years ago. The contractors were protecting small convoys. The road had huge berms on the sides that would run for miles, with canals often on the other side. THey would take fire from the berms, the insurgents felt that the heavy/slow Americans could never catch them. They began to use this tactic. Two young/swift contractors would leave off their armor and load except for the basic rifle/vest. When fired upon, their vehicles would stop, and these two would dash up the berm and shoot the bad guys before they could get away. I just relate that as one tiny example of a tactic relying on speed, hence no armor.

 

[JohnBiltz]

There would be a lot more dead without that armor. We have not exactly lost a lot fights while wearing the armor either.
I've never worn it myself. I retired about the time it really started to get fielded and yes I have a bad back and bad joints, that is pretty much the hazard of a life of ground pounding.

 

[lonegunman]

E-SAAPI plates are supposed to stop ten hits an inch apart of many types of common rifle ammunition, they are heavy as crap. My Iraqi deployment armor weighed a ton, being old made it heavier and less entertaining to wear. Some of the small high speed stuff might zip through at some distances, but if it stops SS109 it will stop most anything.

 

[Trebor]

I had an instructor in SOI that showed us an E-SAAPI that had taken 3 rounds of 7.62x39 AP, a 6 to 8 round burst of M855 from a SAW, and two rounds of M118LR from an M40 without letting anything out the backside

Man, someone had a pretty bad day...

 

[Shadow 7D]

simply put it works differently and in conjunction with the soft armor.

Yeah, the SAPI weighed a bit, but after you see one stop a fist size piece of an IED, you get some respect for them. It messed the gunner up, but he lived and was walking in a week.