Question about a W.Richards Shotgun.

[Terry Linderman]

W. Richards English shotguns

This is a reply Ron James message posted Feb 13, 2009. While there are many reproduction guns, usually from Belgium, there was also an English gunmaker W. Richards. See http://www.wrichardsguns.co.uk/. Most of the discussion assumes that W. Richards guns were reproductions of Westley Richards guns, but according to the company websites, W. Richards was established in 1780, Westley Richards not until 1812. So which company were the Belgians trying to knock off? I don't know, but I'm curious. The gun I have is a 10 ga. muzzleloader, marked "W. Richards" and "London Fine Twist". According to the W. Richards company, genuine guns are stamped "W Richards (Gunmakers) Liverpool Ltd (or Preston/London etc)". Mine does not have such a stamp, but it does have what appear to be Birmingham proof marks, which I have attached. I got them from another website, and I'm not sure where they came from, but they don't look like any Belgian marks I've found so far. If anybody has any more information on these guns, I'd like to hear about it.

 

[Skoghund]

Cheap shot guns were not only made in Belgium but also by the Birminghan gun trade. so they would have Birmingham proof marks These were often stamped with the ironmongers name who sold them. They were sold as farmers guns.

 

[nannygoat]

i have similar gun

mine appears to have a 16 under barrels
any clue what that is?

 

[Fieldmaster63]

The one I have has the same proof marks as Terry's. It also has 403 stamped under the forestock as well as a 7 followed by a mark I can't distingish and then an 11.

 

[HoldiHoov]

I recieved an old to what i believe so far a very old westly Richards double barrel shotgun. London fine twist is stamped on the barrel ridge. Numbers on the reciever and barrels match, there are two stamps of crossed swords on the reciever, and two small stamps of the crown with what looks like a very small R in the middle. there is no date on the gun, only Ser # 23284. Is this a authentic Westly? the stock behind the reciever is broken, and a barrel cracked, any collector worth? or do i have a nice new mantle gun?

 

[glbryant22]

I received my Grandfather's gun today from my uncle. Double-barrel, 12 gauge, double trigger and double hammers. It says Richards Belgium. The right hammer is misssing. Any clue where I might find one?

 

[brucehowell]

W,Richards Shotgun

I have a W.Richards 12 guage double barrel shotgun that was made about 1870 and was my grandfathers gun and has been in my family since approx 1905. It has W.Richards on both side gunn, I have found no other markings are numbers. It has the orginal stock on it, but is cracked. I would like to get it appraised. Does anyone know of someone who could do this in the Dallas Texas area. My name is Bruce Howell and my email is: [email protected]

Thanks Bruce

 

[dswang]

Westley Richards shotguns are well made and highly sought after.

W Richards shotguns are almost all cheap knockoffs, sold for a few dollars new and now qualify as shotgun shaped artifacts,not firearms.

Sorry.

I bought a W. Richards 12 gauge for $490 at a public sale here in pa. this past april 2009 that was not advertised. it was in fair shape. One Antique dealer was there and he ran it up on me. I did some research. It has a laminated barrel, made in england between the barrels w/the crown of england stamped under the fore plate. the gun is hand engraved, in fact fine engraved. I sent it to a professional gun restorer who has bee an antique gun restorer since he was 13. he is 82 now and has restored 54,000 + guns. I have put another $1500 in restortion. It was professionally apraised for $17,000. I called a gun auction in San Francisco and they are very interested in it. Fire destroyed most of the w. richards records in England, but phonecom w/them indicated it is the "REAL DEAL" probably made in or around the 1850????

 

[Dave McCracken]

dswang, it can happen, but rarely. Belgian copies of real W Richards gun or those trading on the guilibility of new purchasers are much more common.

 

[AZ_Rebel]

...my brother in law recently asked me (I'm considered the gun guy in the family) about an old shotgun he'd gotten. His looks to be of a similar age as my W. Richards, but his is marked W. Parkhurst.

I have a old coachgun marked W. Parkhurst and have done some research on it - pm me and I will be happy to share.

Welcome to Gunbroker dswang!

I bought a W. Richards 12 gauge for $490 at a public sale here in pa. this past april 2009 that was not advertised. it was in fair shape.... I sent it to a professional gun restorer who has bee an antique gun restorer since he was 13. he is 82 now and has restored 54,000 + guns.

hmmmmm.... 82-13= 69 years.... 54,000 guns/69years=782 guns per year.... 782/365=2.144 guns a day considering he worked every day of these 69 years??? This was a BUSY man! Cough bs cough cough....

I have put another $1500 in restortion. It was professionally apraised for $17,000.

Man... I hope you took the $17,000 and ran like h-ll!

 

[Stubby00]

My W. Richards has s#7607 stamped on forearm and reciever, it is double Hammer/ trigger with alot of fine engraveing that match from barrel to butt plate. the crossed Halberts and crown stamped on both barrels and a small brass (I'd call it a sherriff badge shaped) piece on the under side of butt stock. any coments or insights would be most helpfull. I'll not sell but I have quite an interest.

 

[30mmavenger]

W Richards London

We also have a double barreled shotgun stamped W. Richards London Laminated Steel on top rib and also found marks of: crossed swords and crown, and a diamond shape with what appears to be 12 over G and also the number 14. Also there is the number 17662 found along with a 3 by itself in one spot. Plus a brass shield-shaped plate on the underneath stock. My father in law inherited this and we do not have much history on it. It is in great shape and shows some usage but is missing nothing. Has a carving of a buck and two does on the butt. Any ideas if this may be the real thing ?? Thanks for any input!

Dawn

 

[jimbeamdrkr]

needing to know if my double barrel muzzle loader is a knock off or worth anything

first let me ask you guys a question my double barrel muzzle loader only has richards printed on it there is also no serial numbers or any other marks on it that i can tell it has a checker board stock i know that its probably a knockoff which i purchased for only a 100.00 now its a wall hanger i just wanted to know what year it dates and if there is any value to it if not it still looks good on my wall thanks to anyone that can help

 

[oneounceload]

needing to know if my double barrel muzzle loader is a knock off or worth anything
first let me ask you guys a question my double barrel muzzle loader only has richards printed on it there is also no serial numbers or any other marks on it that i can tell it has a checker board stock i know that its probably a knockoff which i purchased for only a 100.00 now its a wall hanger i just wanted to know what year it dates and if there is any value to it if not it still looks good on my wall thanks to anyone that can help

First - not to be rude, but punctuation helps some of us figure out your question more easily.

Secondly - not enough data. pics would really help. With just "Richards" IMO, it is a cheap knock-off. Take the forearm off and snap pics of the water table and flats with all the marks.

 

[Chilled Rider]

My W Richards London Laminated Steel SG

I have one of these shotgun and would like to learn some history about it. My father gave it to me and am planning to use it as a "wall hanger". If it is valuable I probably would not do that. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Is it a 12ga?

Ted

 

[flatpicker9972]

I have a W. Richards but my looks a bit different from som I have seen. The forarm is metal with a metal arm you swing and it opens the shotgun. Double barrlled with hammers.
Jerry

 

[flatpicker9972]

Sounds like a gun-smith is trying to make some money on the restore. Watch him.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Flatpicker, that action is a very early one and not very strong. Later W Richards, both Belgian clones and British originals had more strength.

 

[stagecoach]

i just posted about a w.richards shotgun . the barrel release is on the top between the hammmers could somebody give me an idea on its age. there are no other stamp marks on it, except under the front grip....rt barrel 9039 ag the letter in front of the s is not legible, left barrel has a 32. the underside of the grip (stamped is 4 77) contact me at (stagecoach)

 

[mgkdrgn]

This may help some of you.

Westley Richards - ALWAYS spelled out, never seen as W.Richards.

W. Richards = Many many many variations on this. There -was- a quality London gunmaker called W.Richards, and his guns are fairly easy to sort out. (see attached)

There are also numerous Belgian knockoffs of the W.Richards (London) design. They are, at best, wall hangars.

There are -also- american made knocks offs of the Belgian knock offs of the W.Richards design.

Bottom line .. if it doesn't say Westley Richards, spelled out, it's not worth much, and most likely not worth anything. I for one would not shoot ANY of them.