Question about FL concealed carry laws.

[iiibdsiil]

So, it goes by what people are actually doing there, and not what the area is technically devoted to? If more people are in the bathroom drinking at a restaurant that serves alcohol, does that mean you can't go in there and take a leak? Since the door is closed before you go in, how do you know if you can go in legally? Although probably not something that is gonna happen, point is the bathroom is primarily devoted to taking a leak. Wouldn't the area with pool tables be primarily devoted to playing pool? Or the dance floor (especially with that name) primarily devoted to dancing? Would we be in less of a gray area if they were labeled like bathrooms?

And, on a fun note, what about when the girls are dancing on the bar?

 

[beerslurpy]

No, the owners of the establishment primarily devote something. If people carry their drinks into another area, it doesnt change that. It's a vague section, but I think it is pretty easy to construe it using common sense. Obviously a bathroom isnt primarily devoted to serving beverages. It also isnt licensed to serve alcohol, the other element of the offense.

It has to be:
a) a place licensed to serve alcohol
b) and that place has to be primarily devoted to serving said alcohol

Affected:
-bar
-stand with a keg dispensing free beer
-booth with lady giving out samples of scotch

Not affected:
-tables where people are eating food or doing something other than primarily being served booze
-pool tables
-swimming pool
-tennis court
-bathroom
-coat room
-dog kennel
-etc

 

[iiibdsiil]

Well, of course the bathroom isn't licensed to serve alcohol, the establishment in general is.

But, your second part of the post supports my dance floor theory.

So, does the law apply to where the alcohol is primarily consumed, or primarily served?

I'm not trying to bicker little things, just trying to understand what the law is really trying to say. My common sense, your common sense, the policemans common sense, and the judges common sense might be ALL different.

 

[beerslurpy]

The website seems to be down at the moment, but look up the definition of place of nuisance under concealed carry. It is where the alcohol is served. "primarily devoted to serving alcohol." If they said bar, some clever lawyer type might make an alcohol serving area that didnt look like a traditional bar.

 

[iiibdsiil]

823.05 Places declared a nuisance; may be abated and enjoined.--Whoever shall erect, establish, continue, or maintain, own or lease any building, booth, tent or place which tends to annoy the community or injure the health of the community, or become manifestly injurious to the morals or manners of the people as described in s. 823.01, or shall be frequented by the class of persons mentioned in 1s. 856.02, or any house or place of prostitution, assignation, lewdness or place or building where games of chance are engaged in violation of law or any place where any law of the state is violated, shall be deemed guilty of maintaining a nuisance, and the building, erection, place, tent or booth and the furniture, fixtures and contents are declared a nuisance. All such places or persons shall be abated or enjoined as provided in ss. 60.05 and 60.06.

History.--s. 1, ch. 7367, 1917; RGS 5639; CGL 7832; s. 24, ch. 57-1; s. 66, ch. 74-383; s. 1, ch. 75-24; s. 41, ch. 75-298.

1Note.--Repealed by s. 3, ch. 72-133.

856.02 would be under the drunkeness statues, but there is no 856.02, there is an 856.021.

Still

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I'm not trying to bicker little things, just trying to understand what the law is really trying to say. My common sense, your common sense, the policemans common sense, and the judges common sense might be ALL different.

You and everyone else on the planet knows the what a bar is when they see one. Trying to break it down into specific areas of the bar is just stupid. Its like getting caught in a police raid of a massage parlor and trying to convince the cops that since you were in the bathroom at the time, they can't bust you for soliciting.

What the law is doing is allowing you to enter a Red Lobster and eat in the dining room while prohibiting you from entering the bar area where they are serving alcohol and no one is eating. When you walk into a Ruby Tuesdays, Hooters or any other similar establishment, you can tell right away where people are sitting and eating meals and the bar area where people are mostly drinking alcohol.

If you want to be a test case, go for it. It would be entertaining to watch the trial on Court TV.

 

[iiibdsiil]

So you are saying it is quite obvious a club is a bar? I'm not arguing bars, I'm arguing clubs. Club = for dancing, bar = for drinking

 

[gunsmith]

dumb laws

I don't drink at all, period. New Years eve, birthdays...nada!
That being said I will venture into bars for a soda at night or if there is a band
or an open mike so I can play my guitar and sing really offensive (to liberals)
songs about politicians...

FL,AZ etc need to update these dumb laws.
It's one on the reasons I love Reno.
I carry almost anywhere, it's never a hassle.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

So you are saying it is quite obvious a club is a bar?

Yes. The establishment is there to sell alcohol. They have a license to do so. The do not sell dances. Dancing, pool, video games and other activities are merely things you can do while drinking. You could argue that a topless bar is actually a place to sit and look at nude women dance and the only reason to go inside is because you want to watch. I'd agree completely. However, attempt to enter one and watch without ordering a drink. The bouncers will let you know real fast the purpose of the place is to sell alcohol.

It comes down to how far are you willing to push it. If you want to go into "clubs" and dance while armed, do so. You are the one that has to deal with the cops if there is ever a problem.

 

[lacoochee]

If caught the actual charge would be:

a second degree misdemeanor at the most, assuming you have a CWP.

 

[MIL-DOT]

FWIW, i got a permit in florida about two years ago. our instructor told us that bars were off limits, a restaraunt with a bar could be OK if the bar area was separate from the restaraunt and we stayed out of the bar area, this meant not even walking through it to go to the restroom.

 

[beerslurpy]

Are you intentionally being obtuse? "Place of nuisance" is a term that is defined within the concealed carry statute.

 

[Damyanky]

GO HERE AND READ IT FROM A FIREARMS ATTORNEY POV.. MOST FLORIDA PD'S USE IT FOR REFERENCE.


WWW.FLORIDAFIREARMSLAW.COM

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Are you intentionally being obtuse?

Actually, I'd say I'm remarkably patient. I was trying to demonstrate the purpose, goal, and/or reason of existing of such places is the sell acoholic beverages for consumption on the premises. Those places include dance floors and pool table areas. It doesn't matter what extra curricular activity is taking place, the primary function is the consumption of alcohol. Repeatedly trying to argue these areas would be excluded from areas where alcoholic beverages are consumed is the definition of obtuse.

FWIW, i got a permit in florida about two years ago. our instructor told us that bars were off limits, a restaraunt with a bar could be OK if the bar area was separate from the restaraunt and we stayed out of the bar area, this meant not even walking through it to go to the restroom.

As one that has been teaching the Florida CCW course for the past 18 years, that is exactly what I tell those attending my class.

 

[lacoochee]

This is getting silly

Florida laws says you cannot carry in bars (we all know a bar when we see one). Having said that walking through the bar area to use a restroom or retrieve a coke will not get you arrested. Why? Because you are carrying concealed and you aren't doing anything wrong. If God forbid some maniac runs into the restaurant with an AK and you drop him, I highly doubt you will be prosecuted for carrying a concealed weapon in a bar, and bottom line even if you are, it's a second degree misdemeanor (because you have a CWP), you pay a fine and you don't lose the right to carry. Great!! Now we can all get along again. Now you want to have a real argument? Did you know you cannot carry a concealed weapon during a declared state of emergency in Florida? Found that out the other day, when I was looking at our 6 newest "pro" gun laws, you know, the one where they don't have the right now to confiscate firearms during a declared state of emergency. Saw that in there and was floored.

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Secti...ocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=0285&Session=2006

Read line 42.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Calm down. The law has read that way for at least 15 years that I know of. It isn't some new insertion.

 

[lacoochee]

I knew it was not new, but it was kind of galling

I mean given that during an emergency is when I would most likely actually "need" my firearm. Also had I not read that particular law due to it's new portion, I would have had no clue that it would be illegal to carry a concealed weapon during a state of emergency (and if there is one place in the world that has a lot of emegencies it's Florida).

 

[Fred Thompson]

I have to agree with the Chief. If you can smoke in the establishment, you shouldn't be carrying there. It's a Florida thing...