Question about illegal knives in Texas

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ccjcc81

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I'm sure most of you have heard that in 2009 the Texas legislature passed the "Motorist Protection Act," HB1815, which allows any law abiding citizen to carry a concealed handgun in their vehicle without a Concealed Handgun License. I actually read the bill recently, and if I'm reading it correctly, it actually states that a person may carry a "handgun, illegal knife, or club." Here is the section that I'm referring to, which is at the very beginning of the bill:

SECTION 1. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by
amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to
read as follows:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

I've searched Google to see if there is any discussion or case law around this, but all I get is pages and pages of discussion about handguns; none about knives. Have you heard anything?

I'd love to be able to keep a survival or tactical blade in my and my wife's car bags, and based on my (admittedly inept) interpretation of the Motorist Protection Act, it is no longer illegal.
 
Interesting that the text seems to allow you to legally carry an "illegal knife." Strange world.
 
That phrase, "illegal knife," threw me for a loop the first time I read it. But after some research, I see that it's legal to carry knives that have a blade that is 5.5" or less, aren't a double edged blade, automatic knife (which is now legal to carry as of Sept. 2013), sword, etc. Anything else is considered an "illegal knife." They're still legal to buy and own, but you have to keep them at your house.
 
Best guess is an "illegal knife" is a knife with a blade over a certain length. I've lived in (non-Texas) places where a knife with a blade over three inches was "illegal". What that actually meant was that it was illegal to carry such a knife, having on in your kitchen was still kosher. Having a sword hanging on your wall was OK, but actually carrying it down the street was verboten.

Best guess is that the law you quoted was to make the illegal knife as legal in your car as it would be in your home, but still illegal to carry on your person if not in your car.
 
Section 46.01 of the Texas Penal Code defines "illegal knife" -
(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
Click to expand...
IANAL, but it's my understanding that case law assumes daggers, dirks, stilettos, and poniards are double-edged weapons. So as an example, while automatic knives (switchblades) with a blade under 5.5" are now legal to carry, those with double-edged blades like some OTF (out the front) switchblades may get you in hot water. Likewise a double-edged "push dagger" like some neck knives or those incorporated into a belt buckle.

You can have these "illegal" knives in your house, car, or boat, or on your own property, or when transporting them directly between these places, but tucking one in your belt or pocket as you walk around the mall is not OK.
 
What's the definition of an "illegal knife"?

I did a google search and this came up in Penal code Title 10, Chapter 46...
(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.

It looks this is how Texas defines "Illegal Knife".
I would assume any rules regarding handguns would apply to these illegal knives as well when in reference to the motorist protection act...
Switchblade knife has a separate definition and therefore I would assume different rules apply to those.
 
I grasp what they are, I just find it funny that the name for any of a collection of items ("illegal knife") is so exactly detached from the definition of the word used to name them ("illegal").

MagrittePipe.jpg

N'est-ce pas?
 
Yes, very odd terminology... Legally carried illegal knives...

I think everyone was just trying to help the OP.
 
When you get into the area of weapons other than firearms many states have some pretty arcane language for their statutes. I know that as a young cop here in Florida many years ago I read my state's statute on that topic backwards and forwards but was still left with more than a few questions... If asked I recommend anyone interested in exactly where they might stand in their state to do a bit of research on the topic (or just ask your lawyer) since I doubt that any two states have similar language when it comes to knives, blackjacks , etc.
 
I was wondering if part of what the law means has to do with the knife being concealed. I live in Wisconsin and the laws are convoluted at best.
The knife laws seem to be a convoluted mess no matter where you live.

Do they not sell Ka-Bar fighting knives that have a 7 inch blade in Texas?

All I know is that my pocket knife is legal in my pocket, but before I had a
concealed carry permit is was illegal for me to conceal that Ka-Bar
 
BSA1 said:
Perhaps the intent of that law is too allow the owner be legally able to transport them from location to another such as when moving.
Click to expand...
Regarding handguns, that's true, but keeping a gun in the car is not limited to just that. You can go anywhere you want with your gun, except maybe federal property.
 
SECTION 1. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by
amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to
read as follows:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

It says you can carry a concealed handgun if you are in control of a car. Doesn't specify what you must be doing or that you must be moving.

I can clarify my statement as follows:

"Regarding handguns, that's true, but keeping a gun in the car is not limited to just that. You can go anywhere you want with your gun as long as the gun stays in the car when you get out of it, unless you're taking it back to your home."
 
Last edited:
ccjcc81 said:
SECTION 1. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by
amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to
read as follows:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

It says you can carry a concealed handgun if you are in control of a car. Doesn't specify what you must be doing or that you must be moving.

I can clarify my statement as follows:

"Regarding handguns, that's true, but keeping a gun in the car is not limited to just that. You can go anywhere you want with your gun as long as the gun stays in the car when you get out of it, unless you're taking it back to your home."
Click to expand...
Ok, I'm tracking with you.

Upon reading that complete section in the PC, I'm understanding the exact same applies for illegal knives; for the same reasons as for firearms. One being that it allows for transport, another being that the premises, car, or boat under your control is an extension of your home.

(On a tangent, I wonder if illegal firearms, ie zip guns, et al, would've been considered in the same manner if things like the NFA had never existed.)
 
On a side note, until just about a month ago, I thought the legal blade length limit was 4". When I heard it was 5.5", I just had to find a blade that length. I bought a Cold Steel Recon 1 XL Tanto last week. All of the videos and pictures I viewed made the blade seem awesome. Even after the research, I wasn't prepared for just how big that knife is. I'll attempt to EDC it, if for nothing else, just out of sheer stubbornness, and to exercise my right to do so. After my wife told me a couple of times that the Recon 1XL was going to be too big, I will never, ever admit that she may have been right.

On the plus side, it has gotten many, many gratifying "oohs" and "aaahs" while visiting family members over the holidays. Really awesome blade. I'm going to buy more.

On a positive note, I think I may have replaced my gun obsession with a blade obsession. The latter will be less expensive.

Thanks for the advice guys, carry on.
 

BTW, unless the rules have changed in San Antonio, they have an additional "illegal" type of knife there.

Evidently, any folding knife with a locking mechanism is off limits.

So, in addition to any length and exposure rules, you may have to contend with the idea that a knife equipped with a standard safety feature to keep it from accidentally closing on your fingers may be contraband in certain places.

 
ArfinGreebly said:

BTW, unless the rules have changed in San Antonio, they have an additional "illegal" type of knife there.

Evidently, any folding knife with a locking mechanism is off limits.

So, in addition to any length and exposure rules, you may have to contend with the idea that a knife equipped with a standard safety feature to keep it from accidentally closing on your fingers may be contraband in certain places.

Click to expand...

Good one. I'd never heard of that in all my years in Tx. It took a little digging to find but...

Sec. 21-17. - Certain knives prohibited generally; exceptions; penalty for violation.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to intentionally or knowingly carry on or about his person a knife with a blade less than five and one-half (5½) inches in length, which knife is equipped with a lock mechanism so that upon opening, it becomes a fixed blade knife.
(b) The above prohibition set forth in subsection (a) shall not be applicable to a person carrying such a knife:
(1) In the actual discharge of his duties as a peace officer, a member of the armed forces or national guard, or a guard employed by a penal institution;
(2) On his own premises or premises under his control;
(3) Traveling;
(4) Engaged in lawful hunting, fishing or other lawful sporting activity; or
(5) Using such a knife in connection with a lawful occupation, during such utilization.
(Code 1959, § 26-28.1)

Cross reference— Regulation of firearms and weapons, § 21-151 et seq.; possession of a knife, § 21-155.
Click to expand...
 
Sam1911 said:
I grasp what they are, I just find it funny that the name for any of a collection of items ("illegal knife") is so exactly detached from the definition of the word used to name them ("illegal").

MagrittePipe.jpg

N'est-ce pas?
Click to expand...


Nice, Sam. Very nice.
 
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