Question about loading bullets to jam into the lands

[stubbicatt]

A whole lotta valuable information here. Thanks guys for sharing. I read this above, but in effort to quote, I cannot find it anymore! The gist is, that a sizing die can also lead to issues with seating later on.

I have been using the RCBS X die. Do you suppose that could affect uniformity in seating depth? These are Lapua cases, either unfired or once fired.

 

[243winxb]

We went from the 6.5x47 to the 308? Seating depth variations can come from the press also, not just dies. The X die would not be used in Benchrest.

 

[cacoltguy]

I've never used the RCBS X dies so I cant really comment on them. I know that the idea revolves around a mandrel that comes in contact with the case mouth and prevents the case from "growing" as it is resized. When I think about this logically I have to assume that the excess brass is "squished" somewhere. I would then assume that this excess brass gradually builds around the shoulder/neck junction. I do think it is possible that a "donut" of brass buildup could form in this area and yes I do think this could have some effect on consistent bullet seating depths. How long it would take for this to happen really depends on how much resizing the die is doing to the neck. You mentioned you have a larger than normal difference in outside neck diameter between a fired and unfired case. Without using the dies myself though I cant say for sure. I do know that the X dies are favored by some for use in auto loading rifles but I don't know of too many people who use them in bolt action rifles. You mentioned that most of your seating depths are within .002 in with a few being .004. While .004 would probably also make me want to aim for a little more consistency, over all those numbers aren't exactly terrible from a standard seating die. Getting consistently under .001 seating depths is best accomplished with a bushing style or custom made resizing die (expander balls often do more harm than good) and a "competition" style seating die with a floating sleeve.

 

[stubbicatt]

We went from the 6.5x47 to the 308 says 243winxb

Oh yes! I'm sorry. Somewhere in all of this I was reading up on what is advised for the 6.5x47 to shoot well, so I started measuring a bunch of 308s I loaded up, to find out what sort of results I was getting with the tools I already have, with an eye to replacing my Lee Classic Cast Turret press. Sorry if I changed horses in the middle of the stream without advance warning.

I'm thinking that my Classic Cast Turret press may have enough slop in it that I would benefit from a quality single stage press. I'm also thinking that perhaps Redding dies or the Whidden die sets might be a good choice for me. You guys have given me so much great information. I cannot thank you enough. The knowledge spread among you is really welcome.

 

[BillB204]

Excellent two posts CACOLTGUY. I agree completely adding just a couple of things. Annealing is critical to keep the neck brass soft allowing light and consistent neck pressure. It also keeps the brass healthy enough to double or triple the number of reloads. But I anneal after every three reloads instead of after every reload.

Agree that seating off lands adds to consistency and lower ES. I generally seat at .002. But I have also found little to no difference in depths between .0015 and.003.

I'll also add that a good bullet seater will also have a comperator that will seat the bullet straight and significantly reduce runout.

 

[Walkalong]

For the first time in years I loaded some rounds seated into the lands. 25 plus years ago I pushed the shoulders back too far on 100 .222 Mag cases. They have been primed and sitting around ever since then. I finally wore out some other cases so I wanted to try to salvage these cases. I loaded 30 of them long with 60 Gr V Max bullets jammed into the lands to try to hold the case head back against the bolt. I shot them this morning. I just checked them and the shoulders are right where they need to be and there is no sign of an internal rut from stretching. Woohoo.

They shot horribly. They were not nearly fast enough for the 1 in 14 twist to stabilize. I am going to do the rest of the cases using a bit more powder and then load them with a proven 50 or 55 Gr load.

I used to neck size (Lee Collet Die) for it, jump .040 to the lands with it, and it shot superbly like that, but after 3 or 4 firings (Loaded hot), I would have to FL size. I would anneal after that.

I have found that FL sizing shoots extremely well if I use a FL bushing die. (No expander and light neck tension sizing 90 to 95% of the neck) Your gun may be different. I am talking standard quality chambers here.

 

[USSR]

For the first time in years I loaded some rounds seated into the lands. 25 plus years ago I pushed the shoulders back too far on 100 .222 Mag cases. They have been primed and sitting around ever since then. I finally wore out some other cases so I wanted to try to salvage these cases. I loaded 30 of them long with 60 Gr V Max bullets jammed into the lands to try to hold the case head back against the bolt.

I am going to do the very same thing to some .30-06 brass of mine. Although the shoulders are not too far back, I want to use these cases for low velocity (1600 - 1800fps) cast bullet loads with a 247gr bullet, and I want an exact fit to my chamber and will be neck sizing them from here on out.

Don

 

[Walkalong]

The fired and then sized case at 2.370 vs 2.360 (Arbitrary measurement with my home made shoulder gauge. Fired was at 2.366) 2.370 chambers easily while 2.371/2 does not.

No rut in the only one that I could feel anything at all in. I was just feeling the angle change where the case expanded at the web/case wall junction. Woohoo... Good to go. 70 more cases to do.

Anyway, to the OP, if you want to seat into the lands, I used to seat so the marks on the bullet in my 6PPC were half as long as they were wide. With light neck tension that was all it was going to get into the lands. I never tried to measure it. It shot great, and that was all that mattered. That was in a custom Benchrest gun with a .262 (Tight) neck.

I tried seating into the lands with a couple of other guns and it never shot any better for me than jumping anywhere from .020 to .040. Other folks may have a different experience, as mine is a small sample. There are folks here who shoot a great deal more rifle, and many more calibers in rifles than I do.