Question about making your own guns

[Sgt.Murtaugh]

Let's say you have a machine shop you use for manufacturing some other product but you decide you can use said machines to fashion a lower for an AR. I know lowers are considered "firearms" and manufacturers must stamp them with a serial number if they are to be sold. Well what if you weren't going to sell this lower and you were just going to make it for yourself and never sell or give it away to another person. Is that legal to do? Is it not required that you have an FFL or some other license to build a firearm for personal use? Just an argument my buddy and I were having and I can't find anything definitive on it for this situation.

 

[mgmorden]

Individual states may have stricter requirements but at the Federal level you are perfectly legal to make your own firearm. You don't need to serial number it nor do you need an FFL if you just intend to use it yourself. The only requirement is that you cannot make a firearm that is illegal to own (IE, an AR15 lower would be fine, but if you fashioned a fully auto open-bolt machine gun at home its illegal).

 

[jamesbeat]

Perfectly legal on a federal level (provided you are not prohibited from owning the firearm you intend to make), though some states may have laws against it.
I'm pretty sure you only have to mark it if you sell it, but building it with the intent to sell it is illegal without a license.

 

[Sgt.Murtaugh]

thanks for the clarification guys

 

[Walt622]

I know open bolt weapons are not something the ATF cares for, but, is it illegal to make a weapon that fires from the open bolt? Semi auto, of course.

 

[mgmorden]

I know open bolt weapons are not something the ATF cares for, but, is it illegal to make a weapon that fires from the open bolt? Semi auto, of course.

Yes (as of 1982 I believe). Open bolts are deemed to be easily convertible into full-auto so no new open-bolt semi-autos are allowed.

 

[Fryerpower]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html#commercial-parts-assembly

Look at the answers under the commercially available parts kit section. Not exactly what you asked, but some of the answers cover what you are looking for.

"Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future."

 

[VTmtn.man]

Check out Colfaxtactical.com I have x 3 LR.308 lowers shipping out any day now from them. They are 80%'s so basically the magazine well and a few holes need to be milled/drilled out to make it complete. They market them as "paper weights". As long as the person who does the actual work on the lower is the owner & they are legally alowed to own said firearm. Not sure about ever selling them, even if you do mark it with a #.

Just FYI, even the 80% market has experienced the crunch and the raw material blanks are in short supply. Expect new orders to be 6mo. or more. I ordered mine back in Nov. before the panic started. As a customer of Colfax I've found them to be great to work with! They answer calls and seem to turn out great products & their jig for completing lowers is better than some other companies out there.

 

[tjs45d]

Interesting post..I have a friend with a question as well regarding the build of 80% lowers for the AR-15 family...

"Hypothetical": If you have an AR-15 pistol upper, and you complete and build an 80% lower personally, is it legal to install the pistol kit on this "homebuilt" lower..? I cannot find a definitive answer to this question.. I would like to know if I would assemble a configuration like this, would it be legal? I want to make sure that I don't run afoul of the laws on SBR's. Thanks in advance for any input..!

If this post does not fit the topic, moderators may choose to move to NFA thread?

Thanks..!

 

[Speedgoat]

Yep, personal use. IIRC most fed's and states reccomend 'marking it in some way' (not a quote from anywhere, just a phrase) primaraly as a purpose of identifying your gun if it were to become stolen. Gets a little hazy about if you were to ever sell it, for the jurisdiction I studied I belive you are required to have a simple serial number on it. Could be simple as a 1, or 01 or so on. Now I do belive it would be frowned upon to be reaching serial #100 on firearms for your personal use... I think you get 'it' though.

O yeah, I wouldn't go drilling out the auto sear hole. Takes lots of licenses and money to do that.

 

[tjs45d]

Thanks, Speed.. been researching this and couldn't find a real good answer... Understood about the serial numbers and identifying marks as to the owner, just wondered about the "so-called" pistol lowers...

Thanks again..!

 

[VTmtn.man]

In response to TJS, in the AR platform, any piece that is not a 'lower' is merely scrap metal, for all intents and purposes. I do not believe that this differs by state. You could, hypothetically, have one lower and a dozen or a hundred uppers that you switch out and still only have 1 gun. If you in NJ, NY, HI, MA, CA.... & can order an AR stripped barrel, upper, stock, lower parts kit... etc., than YES this is true.

For those unfortunate enough to live in 'iffy' states (given a ban) when it comes to AR's, one could disassemble the AR & keep everything but the lower. It is only scrap metal that you are keeping, you can say that you want to redeem its lb. weight $ at your recycle center...

Please chech local laws as I don't have to do as much 'do diligence' here, yet, in VT

 

[tjs45d]

Thanks VTmtn.man..! That is what I was thinking, and we are fortunate to live in a "somewhat decent" state.. I have researched the lousy gov't regulations and this wasn't spelled out anywhere.. Dang us for trying to be "law-abiding citizens"....

On another note, Thanks to the High Road and it's administrators, because I had a 3 week old question responded to in about 15 minutes after posting..! Thanks all..!

 

[MErl]

VT, I can see one running afoul of readily converted language in local laws. Careful with that scrap metal.

 

[VTmtn.man]

MErl, Thanks for the caution on "scrap metal". I am always seeking for new or changing, pertinent information that concerns me & our 2nd. rights in general. If you have more specifics on legislation/gun parts please divulge...

I have several AR variant builds going on and many AR components on my work bench, so I do have a vested interest. I barely get to check the news on my lunch breaks so it's easy to get 'out of the loop' in these "Hope & Change" years...

Thanks!

 

[tyeo098]

Actually, the language of the 'readily convertible' in regards to an open bolt only applied to 2 specific types of firearms. [redacted] but then general consensus after the ruling was ALL open bolts are no-nos, even though the rulings applied to to only those 2 specific types.

The thread is here: It applies only to Ingram MAC platform and the Sten and KG-9 http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=683049

Best bet it to play safe and go with a striker-fired system or finding some way to implement an AR fcg, which is usually stupid easy and makes it semi-auto. I've seen AR fcg's in everything from Konepistooli M31's to Russian DP28 LMGs to a homebuilt lever delay system.

 

[Mayvik]

Not required to mark unless you ever transfer it, although in theory there's not really a reason not to since there is a minimal paper trail on it (I suppose a sufficiently motivated .gov could apply some deductive reasoning if you have a bunch of credit card charges to Nodak and Apex...) anyway. Eventually you will be dead and will probably want the gun going somewhere other than a .gov crusher... If you're building something you later want to for example convert to a SBR, you will need to mark it (per the requirements) at that time to stay legit - building your own does not allow you to circumvent NFA restrictions.

I would wager that if for some reason your homebrew becomes embroiled in a criminal/legal matter you have bigger problems than if your markings are the right height/depth. I would be interested to hear if that's ever actually come up in real life though. To me it's one of those "add on" laws to keep you incarcerated longer if you do something stupid. "Oh yeah, and your taillight is out..."