Question about Unique:

[IDriveB5]

Just got my Lee Reloading manual and was looking through some of the loads.

.38spl : 148gr WC
Unique : 3.2gr(starting) - 3.2gr(never exceed)
(Alliant's website states 3.3gr for 148gr LWC)

In my dad's old reloading manual (Lyman Reloading 44th edition 1967 )

.38spl : 148gr WC
Unique : 3.5gr(starting) - 5.5gr(never exceed)

What gives?

I know Unique is now made by Alliant when it used to be Hercules, but is it completely different stuff?

We still have some of this old powder(by hercules), when I reload using it, should I use the old Lyman data?

 

[bender]

my old Hornady manual (Third Edition, printed 1985) lists 4.1gr as the max Unique load for that bullet. It was Hercules back then.

Seems like the max load is getting lighter & lighter...

liability reasons...?

Unique : 3.2gr(starting) - 3.2gr(never exceed)

3.2 starting, 3.2 max... is that a typo by you ?

 

[benedict1]

Unique--contact Alliant Cust. Svc.--

I would send an email to Ben Ammonette, Customer Service Mgr. for Alliant. He can give you the right range for Unique. I have had many emails from him and he is a great help.

Often the load shown in Alliant's manual, which is where the Lee data come from, shows a suggestion for a certain bullet weight/powder, but in fact, you can go higher. Here is Ben's email--

[email protected]

He will help you out.

 

[IDriveB5]

No sir, no typo.

min: 3.2gr, velocity: 775, volume: 0.35cc
max: 3.2gr, velocity: 775, pressure: 14100psi

Modern Reloading, 2nd Edition, pg 565

 

[IDriveB5]

Benedict, thanks for the email. Just sent him an email.

 

[bender]

I should have also mentioned, that in my Hornady manual (from the 1980s), it also lists 3.2gr Unique as the starting load for that bullet.

But as I said, it goes up to 4.1gr from there.

 

[donkee]

Here's what I get from Alliant's site....

Min OAL, Primer, Powder, Charge Weight, Velocity
1.18, Fed. 100, Unique, 3.3g, 815fps

So, a max of 3.3 grains, subtract 10% to start.....

 

[benedict1]

"The Complete Reloading Manual for the .38 Special", latest edition, gives numerous loads for DEWC, SWC and WC with Unique---all lead. For example, with Lyman 148 gr. WC loaded to 1.317" OAL Unique is shown as follows:

Unique
Suggested Starting Grains=3.4
Velocity=660 fps
Pressure=8500
------------------------
Max. Load Grains=5.0
Velocity=948 fps
Pressure=16,100
------------------------
So you have a range, not unlike the old Hornady manual you cite.

As I said above, the entries in the Alliant tables are usually suggestions for a particular load; they don't necessarily mean 'Max' loads. Look to see if there are any stronger loads with heavier WC, e. g., 158 gr. You'll note a load at 4.3 gr for this heavier bullet suggesting that loads around 3.8-4.0 gr might work okay. BUT, wait until you get some info. from Alliant Customer Service.

I went through all this when I started reloadng several months ago; I know it's confusing. But you are on the right track with the old Hornady manual or the manual I cited above.

Having said all this, because Unique does not meter well below 4 gr., I use 3.1 gr Win 231, a ball powder, which flows much better and meters very well at small charges. You might want to consider it.

 

[benedict1]

Here is another source of loading information--M. D. Smith's reloading pages--

http://www.reloadammo.com/reload.htm

He has many loads for all different calibers all of which he has usually chronographed.

 

[Starter52]

+1 benedict1. Good website.

 

[IDriveB5]

whats odd is, 4.3gr of hercules unique behind the 148gr HBWC was one of my dad's old favorite target load for his S&W M19 (38spl) and it is by no means a stout load, felt like about the same recoil as most factory target ammo.

am i missing something here?

 

[skipjack]

If you have access to some bullseye, you may want to give it a try. It is my go to powder for light 38spl loads. Those wadcutters are usually loaded fairly light for minimum recoil. With bullseye, you use less powder than unique, making for a more economical load. I hope this helps!

 

[benedict1]

No--it's just that everyone is misinterpreting the Alliant Manual. The loads given there are not the end of the story--there is much more. Wait until you hear from Alliant Customer Service.

I would get the Lyman Pistol and Revolver Manual, 3rd ed. or the manual I referenced in my post above for .38 Special.

In the meantime, here is what they recommended to me

158 gr plated RN for .38 Special = 4.5 gr Unique.

I had been using around 4 gr and he suggested the increase because I was a little light. I actually settled on 4.3 gr which feel pretty nice and shoot good.

 

[skipjack]

Benedict is onto something. The load on alliant's site is under the saami max for 38 special.

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

However, if you are looking for a higher velocity load, you may want to reconsider the bullet you intend using. Pushing a wadcutter fast is asking the bullet to do something for which it was not designed. You may end up with leading in the bargain. Those wc bullets are designed to shoot at low velocity for target shooting.

If I were looking for a snappier round, I would load a swc or jacketed hollow point. I just loaded a bunch of 125 grain remington semi jacketed hollow point over 4.3 grains of bullseye that shot like a dream out of my 3" j frame. I didn't chrono them, but they made that old revolver jump a bit. Also, they shot a nice group at 10 yards. Obviously, you may experience different results, etc.

Good luck and good shooting!

 

[IDriveB5]

Response about Unique

ME: Just got my Lee Reloading manual and was looking through some of the loads.

.38spl : 148gr WC
Unique : 3.2gr(starting) - 3.2gr(never exceed)
(Alliant's website states 3.3gr for 148gr LWC)

In my dad's old reloading manual (Lyman Reloading 44th edition 1967 )

.38spl : 148gr WC
Unique : 3.5gr(starting) - 5.5gr(never exceed)

What gives?


ALLIANT POWDER: We have two 38 Special loads in our reloading guide for the 148 gr WC. One is listed as a "target" load, and the pressure for this load is a bit lower. The other load of 3.3 grs is still low pressure, but not quite as low. The max pressure for a standard 38 Special is 17,500 psi.

Alliant Unique is the same as Hercules Unique, except we are making it now to burn a bit cleaner. We recommend that you go by new data however. Thanks for your interest in contacting us and let me know if you have any additional questions. Have a nice day.

ME: Thank you for your response.
I am still confused as to why the Lyman Manual would state a load range from 3.5-5.0gr for this same bullet.

My father used this older data and powder many years ago to load 4.3gr behind a 148gr LHBWC bullet to shoot out of his S&W M19 .38spl

I have been shooting these loads out of my .357mag. Is this safe?


ALLIANT POWDER: Evidently, Lyman is loading up near the max pressure, which we did not do, simply because the WC bullets are typically shot at target velocities. A charge of 4.3 grs should be fine out of your 357.

 

[g56]

A lot of the time loading data for wadcutters is aimed at accuracy and not a higher velocity, also depending on what alloy is used in the manufacture, you can have leading problems when boosting velocity.

 

[IDriveB5]

My dad had some 231, so I loaded up a couple hundred @3.1gr behind the HBWC. Makes for a nice little load, I like the way 231 shoots, quite accurate and was metering fairly consistently.

Starting to get tired of shooting lead though, its so messy, it takes forever to get the lead out of the cylinders.

 

[benedict1]

+1 on Win 231 with 3.1 gr and 148 gr DEWC, which is what I shoot. With the Lee Pro Auto Disk I get so close to 3.1 gr every time I can't see a weighed difference.

 

[IDriveB5]

hey benedict, are you using the Lee Adjustable Charge Bar Auto Disk ?
curious as to if i need other parts to set it up.

 

[Jim Watson]

I suspect the light loads shown by Lee are for hollowbase wadcutters. The labs are real careful about avoiding blowing through a HBWC and leaving a lead tube in the barrel. (By the way, Lee does not develop load data, they just reprint powder company information, the load shown is from somewhere in Alliant literature.)

Heavier loads are probably for solid wadcutters. Certainly so in a Lyman book, they came out of a Lyman mould.

 

[benedict1]

No, actually the smallest hole in the Auto Disk seems to work with the lot of 231 I have right now.

I think the adjustable charge bar would work fine, but NOT with flake powders; I can't get consistency from flake powders unless I'm over about 5.5 gr and then it isn't great.

I just stick to the Auto Disks and whatever the holes give me, I shoot. So far I have had no particular conflicts.

I have done some repeatability studies with the Auto Disks and Unique--from 4 gr on up they are very repeatable. Below 4 gr, be careful because that flake powder wants to 'bridge' and 'cake' and you can get erratic results.

If I'm going to work on a light load with a small charge I will go to a ball powder now, every instance. The Lee Micro Disk will work well with ball powders too and you might go to that if you want less than 3. gr of something.

 

[IDriveB5]

Thats why I stopped using Unique for my target loads. In my dad's RCBS powder measure, i had a tough time getting it to meter.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

3 grain Unique with 148 gr HBWC always gave me good accuracy.
Going more than 4 gr, I did not get good accuracy.
For a target bullet, the manual may be sticking to most accurate load.

 

[earplug]

HBWC

Pushing A HBWC to hard will blow out or deform the Hollow base. Accuracy will suffer.
I used Unique for years, I'm getting to enjoy 231 for lighter loads.