Question about which Lee dies to get

[NTD]

Hello All,

I dabble in reloading. I use a Lee hand press. Up until now, I just reloaded 40 S&W and 45 ACP. However, I'm thinking of reloading two rifle calibers (308 and 223). Before I order dies for these calibers, I thought I would ask for some clarification on which die set to purchase. From what I have read, I have deduced that for my bolt action 308, I want the Lee Delux die set (with the collet die). The reason being, is that the shell will be fire formed to my rifle. I want the Lee Pacesetter die set for the 223 because of the full length sizer die. Is this correct?

Also, does the sizing dies deprime the shells?

Finally, It looks like I will need to purchase factory crimp die seperately. Am I correct on this, or does the bullet seating die also crimp?

Thanks in advance for putting up with the newbie questions.

 

[OYE]

First: The full length sizing dies also deprime ( Can't say about the collet die, I've never owned one, probably does, you can call Lee and find out). Neck sizing ( or collet) works fine for bolt action rifles, but not for autos ( I don't like it for pumps or lever actions either). I started out using the LEE LOADER, neck sizer. I sometimes still do. If just neck sizing for 4 or 5 loads you see some brass getting a little difficult to chamber. So that's why I full length size. I was able to get the same accuracy by doing other things to the gun. Use the Lee case lube with the rifle full length sizer, I put it on a wet sponge. ( you don't need lube with the collet die ). Be sure the pressure hole is open on the full length sizer ( located in the neck area ) . Use a piece of wire before each loading session. If the hole is open, you will have no problems. The Lee dies are very forgiving about using too much lube provided the hole is open. I've never collapsed a rifle case or stuck one in a Lee die and I've loaded thousands. I believe the factory crimp die is included in both sets, double check that though. You can crimp with the full length sizing die but in my opinion the factory crimp die works much better. I really like them. Accuracy is excellent using it. It's not necessary to crimp for a bolt action rifle, but all others should be. I do as I see no difference in the accuracy with the factory crimp and I get higher velocity. We get .5 in. center to center 3 shot groups full length sizing with the factory crimp. I don't do benchrest competition. It's a whole different ballgame. Follow their instructions.
Good Luck.

 

[OYE]

You may wish to read my recent post about pressure signs on " the sticky extraction "
thread. Best

 

[OYE]

I decided to add a few other tidbits. If you want good accuracy in any gun don't mix brass. Changing brands can move the point of impact a couple inches. Some guns will not shoot boattail bullets accurately ( in fact they sling them all over a 16 in. target at 100 yds. ) but will shoot flatbase bullets to .5 in. c. to c. at 100 yds. Be sure not to
seat bullets hard into the rifleing. They should have minimum of .010 in. clearance before contacting the rifling ( benchrest shooting is a diiferent deal ). All rifles have different
throat lengths. What is o.k. for one is not o.k. for another. Most bolt action rifles with the stocks properly bedded are capable of sub inch groups at 100 yds if properly hand loaded. As far as bullets are concerned, good accuracy may not mean expensive. More than one rifle we own shoots Rem core -loct bullets to well under an inch at 100 yds.
Would also recommend either tumbling brass or cleaning it by hand with fine steel wool
each loading and cleaning primer pockets as well. Brass length should be checked each loading and the lee case trimmers work well. It's usually best to weigh powder charges
( dippers work but scales are much more accurate. ) If you don't have dial calipers, think you can get them reasonable from Midway, you need them. If you stay well under maximum charges, your brass will last much longer and you will avoid most of the problems you see posted in these threads and live much longer and keep your eyesight
to a ripe old age.

 

[Sport45]

The Lee Pacesetter Die Set has the factory crimp die along with a FL Sizer, a normal seat/crimp die, and the shell holder.

I haven't seen the need to crimp for my AR's but YMMV.

 

[243winxb]

All Lee info and tips can be found here. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi

 

[243winxb]

Lee- Die set explanations

Pacesetter die set

Includes a full length sizing die, bullet seating die, factory crimp die, shell holder, powder dipper and load data.
This set is recommended for assembling ammunition for hunting purposes as the finished rounds chamber easily and can withstand rough handling of the firearm action.

Limited Production Pacesetter die set

This set consists of a two die set which includes a full length steel sizing die(requires case lubrication), bullet seating die, shell holder, powder dipper and load data.

Collet die set

Includes the Collet neck sizing die, dead length bullet seating die, shell holder, powder dipper and load data.
This set is designed for assembling the most accurate ammunition but is not recommended for hunting rounds as the case is neck sized only and the bullet is not crimped in the case.

Deluxe die set

Includes both the full length(requires case lubrication) and Collet neck sizing dies, dead length bullet seating die, shell holder, powder dipper and load data.
This is essentially a Collet die set with the addition of the steel full length sizing die so that one can prepare newly acquired cases for the first firing in the rifle.

RGB (Really Great Buy)

Comes as a standard two die rifle set that contains a full length sizing die and a crimper / seater die. This set is designed to meet a tight budget and contains only the dies.

Carbide die set

Carbide handgun dies contain the carbide sizer, the powder through expanding die, the seater/crimping die, a powder dipper, shell holder and load data. The seater/crimper die applies a modified taper crimp and eventually a roll crimp negating the need for a separate taper crimp die.

Lee Deluxe Pistol Die Set

Includes our popular three die carbide handgun die set explained above plus the addition of our Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. This additional die has a carbide ring that post sizes your case ensuring that your loaded cartridge will fit into the chamber of your gun. Additionally, the degree of crimp is determined by the finger adjustable crimp knob on top of the die. This die is meant to work in conjuction with your bullet seating die as it has no provision for seating the bullet itself.





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[Walkalong]

I would start out by getting the full length sizer set for both. Size the .223 to fit a case gauge and partial full length size the .308 to fit the chamber. You can always play around with neck sizing later. The Lee collet type neck sizer with dead length bullet seater do work well though. Eventually you will need a body die or full length die to size the brass when it starts getting hard to chamber, and if you already have it, you'll be good to go.

 

[10 Spot Terminator]

You were correct in all of your original assumptions about the Lee dies. For total versatility and less overall costs get the deluxe die set and you can order the factory crimp die seperately. Bear in mind in addition to the other great info posted here that unlike loading for straight wall handgun brass you will need to keep your brass trimmed to uniform length especially when you are crimping as you want to keep the tension on the bullets as uniform as is possible. Unlike a previous post I tested crimping vs. non crimping on 6 different calibre rifle loads and in the majority of the loads was able to reduce my group sizes by an average of 15% and never had crimping create the opposite effect. Again for less cost the Lee zip trim unit is not only cost effective but quick and easy to use. Enjoy the ride when you get that magic load working for you and revel in the satisfaction that you made it yourself.

10 Spot