Question for you fans of the holy black

[Pete D.]

powder

and no, these two powders do not perform the same. You may have been thinking about Old Eynsford instead of Schuetzen. In Richard's test, Graf's powder gave an average velocity of 672 FPS, whereas the Swiss produced an average of about 920 FPS. The Swiss powder also burned cleaner

Just a note......no, powders are not the same. Some are denser than others.
We are often told to measure BP by volume only.....Bunk. Nothing bad will happen if, before using a volume measure, you take a moment and weigh the charge.
One of the reasons that Swiss has a reputation for being "hotter" than other powders is that it is denser.....there is more of it in that volume measure than there would be if the measure was used for a "fluffy" powder like KIK.
One Sherman Bell, in a series entitled "Finding Out for Myself" (in the Double Gun Journal) did work with a variety of BP brands. Swiss, at least in the lots that he was using, was ten percent heavier than Goex for the same volume.
I do not know if that differential is always the case but it is worth considering.
Pete

 

[Don McDowell]

Swiss isn't necessarily any denser than regular Goex, but it is sized and marked different.
1.5 Swiss is the same size as 2f Goex. 2f Swiss is closer to 3f Goex, and 3f Swiss is not quite as fine as 4f Goex. That's where the extra actual weight from Swiss comes from.
When Goex introduced the Olde Eynsford powder they screen it the same size as Swiss, so the differences in weight and energy that were claimed earlier have mostly disappeared.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Talking with the folks at Powder, Inc, they will sell a walk-in customer 1 pound or more of GOEX, Schuetzen, Swiss, and the others listed on their website at www.powderinc.com/

If you're coming to Clarksville, AR to pick up powder, they require you to call ahead first at 877-833-1799 before stopping by. There's only one guy in the warehouse, and he needs authorization from the office before he can take care of a walk-in customer.

For example, GOEX regular grades, 1FG, 2FG, 3FG, 4FG, etc, are $14.00 per pound, including AR sales tax.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pete D.]

maybe

Swiss isn't necessarily any denser than regular Goex, but it is sized and marked different.
1.5 Swiss is the same size as 2f Goex. 2f Swiss is closer to 3f Goex, and 3f Swiss is not quite as fine as 4f Goex. That's where the extra actual weight from Swiss comes from.
When Goex introduced the Olde Eynsford powder they screen it the same size as Swiss, so the differences in weight and energy that were claimed earlier have mostly disappeared.

Perhaps....Have you weighed equal volumes of each? I have not.
Pete

 

[Don McDowell]

Yes I have shot plenty of each powder. But even at that you can do a pretty simple test with just Goex. If you take a volume measure and weigh that charge of 2f, then without changing the measure , measure out of that measure and weigh a charge of 3f. You will see the significant weight gain of the same volume of 3f over the same volume of 2f. That is exactly the same thing you get when comparing Goex 2f to Swiss 2f. Swiss 2f is the same powder kernel size as Goex 2f.
This is also why many of the shooters that have actually tried the Olde Eynsford powder have found that they are getting the same or very similar results by leaving their measures as set and simply pouring OE into the measure instead of Swiss. Some have actually reported equal accuracy and higher velocity from OE than the Swiss..

 

[Pete D.]

Nope

Don:

If you take a volume measure and weigh that charge of 2f, then without changing the measure , measure out of that measure and weigh a charge of 3f. You will see the significant weight gain of the same volume of 3f over the same volume of 2f. That is exactly the same thing you get when comparing Goex 2f to Swiss 2f. Swiss 2f is the same powder kernel size as Goex 2f.

Are you saying that a volume of Swiss FFg will weigh more than an equal volume of Goex FFg? Or not?
Because earlier you wrote "Swiss isn't necessarily any denser than regular Goex, but it is sized and marked different."
Now you have said that Swiss FFg and Goex FFg have the same kernel size.(marked and sized the same)
Not sure where you are in this.
Pete

 

[Don McDowell]

Yes Swiss 2f will weigh more than Goex 2f, because Swiss is smaller grains than regular Goex. Swiss 2f is the same size as regular Goex 3f.
Goex Olde Eynsford and Swiss are screened to the same size so the weight difference on those two isn't so different as when comparing regular Goex (or even Goex Express) to Swiss.
I'm really surprised that more folks haven't caught on to that little tidbit, but then it takes hands on comparison to actually see what the deal is..

 

[TRX]

I've seen pictures of various 1800s black powder cartridges broken down; in many, there was a lot of fine powder mixed in with the larger grains.

Now I'm wondering if the inclusion of fines was deliberate, to fill up the odd volumes between the large grains.

 

[Noz]

Like a lot of things around, black powder is like chocolate and vanilla. My powder of choice right now is KIK.
We that shoot CAS use a lot of powder. I load for 44-40, 32-20 12 ga, 36 cal pistols and 44 cal pistols.
I ran through some over 17 pounds of powder in 2014 and I had cut my shooting back because of injury my wife incurred that curtailed my travel.
At that rate of useage, price begins to enter into the equation.
I have 7 pounds on the shelf and an order in for 13 more.

 

[Don McDowell]

Noz when you get a chance grab up a can or two of the Olde Eysnford, for the minimal price difference between it and KIK, it's fairly likely you'll make the switch.
Normal years a 25 lb case of powder will leave about enough to load for the first match the next season, when the wife gets the itch to burn the barrel out of her Hiwall, a 25lb case won't get us thru the season.