Question for you statistics guys.

[jrdolall]

With all the talk about banning black rifles and hi-cap magazines and yadayadayada can someone find this info.
How many people are shot/killed with "assault" rifles? Most of these evil guns are .223 caliber of course but there are plenty out there in different calibers.
How many are shot/killed with 9mm pistols? I believe that is the most common caliber of pistol unless the .22 is still tops.
My question to an anti would be why are they looking to ban assault weapons yet normal pistols are really not on the table at this point? I have no doubt that the numbers are not even close and we all know why that is the case. I am 100% against banning any of the above but I think it is interesting that these black rifles are the target of all this political BS while other types of guns cause a lot more damage overall.
Banning one particular type/style of gun will of course not stop crazy people from doing crazy things but, if the numbers are what I suspect, they are trying to ban a gun that actually causes relatively few deaths.
Of course I may be completely wrong and "assault rifles" kill more people than do 9mm handguns. I also know that this will not matter a whit to the anti-gun crowd but I like to have all the info I can when discussing the matter.

 

[45crittergitter]

There is no evidence that semiautos are disproportionately used in crime. Semiauto and all other rifles are involved in 4% of homicides. Data from big cities suggest military look-alikes constitute 1.5% of guns seized by police, while accounting for about 2% of the guns owned by Americans. Since only 1% of guns used in violent crimes are traced, BATF traces tell nothing about the types of guns used by criminals. - NRA/ILA 1992

According to the Consolidated Crime Report of the FBI for the year of 1992, only one‑fourth of the murders committed in this country were committed with firearms of any type, and less than 1% were committed with rifles of any type.

"Even a 1995 study by the Clinton Administration showed how rarely these guns (so-called “assault weapons”) were used in crime during the early 1990s… Less than 1% of state and federal inmates carried a military-type semiautomatic gun when they committed a crime. A later 1997 survey showed that this number was the same or slightly higher after the ban." - John Lott, "The Gun Control Debate," Washington Times

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

My question to an anti would be why are they looking to ban assault weapons yet normal pistols are really not on the table at this point?

It's not a matter of statistics, it is a matter of public opinion.

The gun control folks would love to ban handguns. However, public support for banning handguns is low and trended downwards for decades. So-called "assault weapons", on the other hand, are low-hanging fruit.

In light of the Heller decision, handguns are even a less appealing target.

 

[Warp]

With all the talk about banning black rifles and hi-cap magazines and yadayadayada can someone find this info.
How many people are shot/killed with "assault" rifles? Most of these evil guns are .223 caliber of course but there are plenty out there in different calibers.
How many are shot/killed with 9mm pistols? I believe that is the most common caliber of pistol unless the .22 is still tops.
My question to an anti would be why are they looking to ban assault weapons yet normal pistols are really not on the table at this point? I have no doubt that the numbers are not even close and we all know why that is the case. I am 100% against banning any of the above but I think it is interesting that these black rifles are the target of all this political BS while other types of guns cause a lot more damage overall.
Banning one particular type/style of gun will of course not stop crazy people from doing crazy things but, if the numbers are what I suspect, they are trying to ban a gun that actually causes relatively few deaths.
Of course I may be completely wrong and "assault rifles" kill more people than do 9mm handguns. I also know that this will not matter a whit to the anti-gun crowd but I like to have all the info I can when discussing the matter.

Very few. Very, very few although I don't know where to find those actual numbers, or if the numbers exist, given the lack of a consistent definition of the term.

According to the FBI, between 2007-2011, the highest number of murders committed with a rifle, any rifle, in a single year was only 453.

So rifles, all rifles, the 453 year were still only about 3% of total murders as reported by the FBI.

Edit: I forgot the link

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

 

[Bob2222]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports in 2011, 1,694 homicides were committed with knives or cutting instruments, 728 were committed with personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.), and 496 were committed with blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.).

323 homicides were committed with rifles. That's ALL rifles, from big game hunting rifles to the so-called "assault rifles" to .22 target rifles like the one that Adam Lanza used to murder his mother.

My question to an anti would be why are they looking to ban assault weapons yet normal pistols are really not on the table at this point?

Taking your question backwards -- as I read Feinstein's proposed AWB 2.0, as written it WOULD classify autoloading pistols as "assault weapons". That's not the stated intention, but it would.

As for the first part of your question -- this is NOT about saving children's lives. It's about controlling the hoi polloi.

 

[holdencm9]

323 homicides were committed with rifles. That's ALL rifles, from big game hunting rifles to the so-called "assault rifles" to .22 target rifles like the one that Adam Lanza used to murder his mother.

Be careful, I always wonder how many of the "other guns" and "firearm, type not stated" would also be under the umbrella of the AWB...like submachine guns or sawed-off shotguns, etc. I don't know, it would be interesting to find out. Personally I think it is quite sad they can't make finer distinctions of types of guns.

I agree in principle though, the "assault weapons" are just low-hanging fruit. Something easy to go after.

 

[Warp]

Be careful, I always wonder how many of the "other guns" and "firearm, type not stated" would also be under the umbrella of the AWB...like submachine guns or sawed-off shotguns, etc. I don't know, it would be interesting to find out. Personally I think it is quite sad they can't make finer distinctions of types of guns.

I agree in principle though, the "assault weapons" are just low-hanging fruit. Something easy to go after.

Sawed off shotguns are just shotguns that were legal but had their barrel cut shorter, are they not? Submachine guns? You mean a full auto pistol caliber? I doubt there many, if any, of those being used in the US.

But yes, low hanging fruit is one way to put it. Death by a thousand paper cuts. Splinter off factions of gun owners one by one, whittle them down. Assault weapons/rifles, saturday night specials, street sweepers, riot guns, auto pistols, sniper rifles...they'll come up with a nefarious sounding name and story for everything, if they get their chance.


Earlier today I read an article on a major mainstream media outlet's site that talked about a "military style flashider"

 

[MachIVshooter]

Be careful, I always wonder how many of the "other guns" and "firearm, type not stated" would also be under the umbrella of the AWB...like submachine guns or sawed-off shotguns, etc. I don't know, it would be interesting to find out. Personally I think it is quite sad they can't make finer distinctions of types of guns.

Hard to make that distinction if they can't find the gun. ME finding a .451" slug doesn't mean it was a handgun, and finding a .224" spitzer doesn't mean it was a rifle.

 

[hso]

The only national data available is the FBI Uniform Crime Reports.

They differentiate between Handguns, Rifles, Shotguns, Firearms (types unknown), Knives, Other Weapons, Hands/Feet, but not to any further detail within those categories so you might know revolver vs. semiauto use in pistols or EBR from lever guns in Rifles.

The total for murders in 2011 was 12,626 with 8,552 committed with firearms of which 6,193 were committed with handguns, 1,680 were committed with the "type unknown" firearms, 356 were committed with shotguns and 323 were committed with rifles of every sort. Note that rifles were the lowest percentage of firearms used. 1,689 of the 12,626 total murders were committed with blades while 728 were committed with hands/feet. That makes rifles the least likely means of murder in the U.S. in 2011 by a large margin (half that of hands and feet and less than a FITH of blades!).

With a population of 314 MILLION and only 323 murders committed by rifles the ratio of murders committed with rifles is a minuscule 324/314,000,000 or roughly 1 for every million person in the country.

That means that odds of being murdered in the U.S. with a rifle are one in a million.

 

[Warp]

The only national data available is the FBI Uniform Crime Reports.

They differentiate between Handguns, Rifles, Shotguns, Firearms (types unknown), Knives, Other Weapons, Hands/Feet, but not to any further detail within those categories so you might know revolver vs. semiauto use in pistols or EBR from lever guns in Rifles.

The total for murders in 2011 was 12,626 with 8,552 committed with firearms of which 6,193 were committed with handguns, 1,680 were committed with the "type unknown" firearms, 356 were committed with shotguns and 323 were committed with rifles of every sort. Note that rifles were the lowest percentage of firearms used. 1,689 of the 12,626 total murders were committed with blades while 728 were committed with hands/feet. That makes rifles the least likely means of murder in the U.S. in 2011 by a large margin (half that of hands and feet and less than a FITH of blades!).

With a population of 314 MILLION and only 323 murders committed by rifles the ratio of murders committed with rifles is a minuscule 324/314,000,000 or roughly 1 for every million person in the country.

That means that odds of being murdered in the U.S. with a rifle are one in a million.

lol

The odds are quite literally 1 in a million. Except that there are possibly a few unreported murders with rifles, or some of those unkowns were with a rifle...but then there's probably a correlation between criminal activity and being murdered, and I'll wager that if you aren't a drug dealer, involved in organized crime, or somehow associated with a criminal gang, etc, your chances are lower than 1 in a million.

 

[hso]

If you look at the other tables in the Uniform Crime Report you can infer that opinion from the data.

If you talk to LEOs like Jeff White and others they will anecdotally support that conclusion drawn from the data.

Most murders are committed in geographic pockets. There are age clusters for victims. On and on.

An examination of the UCR data leads to the conclusion that most murder victims are young minority men in urban settings.

 

[Warp]

If you look at the other tables in the Uniform Crime Report you can infer that opinion from the data.

If you talk to LEOs like Jeff White and others they will anecdotally support that conclusion drawn from the data.

Most murders are committed in geographic pockets. There are age clusters for victims. On and on.

An examination of the UCR data leads to the conclusion that most murder victims are young minority men in urban settings.

Yes.

Perpetrators as well.

 

[holdencm9]

Sawed off shotguns are just shotguns that were legal but had their barrel cut shorter, are they not? Submachine guns? You mean a full auto pistol caliber? I doubt there many, if any, of those being used in the US.

I just mean that a carbine or submachine-gun clone or anything that essentially is not a "standard" rifle could be classified under the "other" or "type unknown" categories, so when evaluating the rarity of assault weapon crime, that may have to be taken into account, (at least a portion of the guns in the aforementioned categories would fall under the umbrella of a new AWB). But regardless, even if ALL the guns in the unknown category were M4geries, which is of course not true, the crime rate with them is still very small. Like, 3 in a million LOL

Hard to make that distinction if they can't find the gun. ME finding a .451" slug doesn't mean it was a handgun, and finding a .224" spitzer doesn't mean it was a rifle.

True but the overwhelming odds point to a .451" slug being a handgun and a .224" being a rifle/carbine. I doubt a statistically relevant number murders were using a Thompson .45 or 9mm carbine. It would be interesting to know the "murder by slug type" numbers though! It would especially be interesting to see the number of rimfire murders.

 

[gbran]

The FBI defines mass murder as four or more murders occurring during a particular event with no cooling-off period between the murders. In 2012, we had six mass murder events with firearms.

That means the other 8,500+ firearms murders killed 3 or fewer victims per event. I don't know how many so-called assault weapons or hi-cap mags were used, but at 3 or fewer deaths per event, they offered no great advantage to the shooters.

Another interesting statistic is that out of a population nearly 313 million, just 6 people chose to become mass murderers.

 

[danez71]

Here you go

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...1/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/murder

 

[jrdolall]

Yes the stats pretty much lined up like I thought. They mean nada to a true anti-gun person but might help with those on the fence.