Question. When gunpowder gets wet is it unusable forever?

[waldonbuddy]

This is something Ive always wondered about. I'm talking about any, all, types of gunpowder.

If the powder gets moisture in it, then drys completely, will it ever be able to ignite again, or does the water do something to the chemical makeup of the powder making it useless?

 

[stampsm]

Your biggest problem is that it could cause the powder to cake together and be a solid chunk more so than a powder. then it burns slow like a rocket and not a explosion. For old black powder if the water washed through it the potassium nitrate dissolves in water so the oxidizer could wash out of the powder.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Smokeless powder I cannot speak for. Black powder, however, is a mechanical mixture of two insoluble ingredients and one highly soluble one. Add water and the soluble ingredient is lost making the mix unusable.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Um, many if not most powders are extruded or formed while wet.

 

[David E]

Not only that, many of Alliant's old "original" powders like Unique are stored underwater.

When they need to re-animate it, they dry it out, etc.

 

[waldonbuddy]

So if I had powder for loading ammo, then if said powder got wet then it could still be used after a complete drying, and separation of the clumps? Talking about modern smokeless power............Anyway good info, thanks.

 

[earplug]

It will still work

As another member posted at least one gunpowder manufacture stores its heirloom? powder underwater to keep it fresh. They are able to test burn rates to match new with old.
I'm guessing underwater storage helps keep it from oxidising.
I recall reading that either is used with modern smokeless powder as a drying agent.
You can smell the either when you open a jug of powder.
Perhaps the two bits of information can help you.

 

[shotgunjoel]

I recall reading that either is used with modern smokeless powder as a drying agent.
You can smell the either when you open a jug of powder.

Did you mean ether? Sorry, I'm a chemist.

 

[earplug]

Sorry, your correct ether is what is used. I can't smell either either.

 

[Cosmoline]

Black powder is actually made wet then dried. If it gets exposed to water later on it can be dried out and used again so long as it wasn't too damaged by the water.

Are you folks sure they're storing "wet" smokeless in water?

 

[David E]

Are you folks sure they're storing "wet" smokeless in water?

The manufacturers do, yes.

 

[billybobjoe]

Dry it out and blow up a gopher with it.

 

[billybobjoe]

I guess it was a possum my friend blew up with his can of old gunpowder. Why let it go to waste?

 

[TEDDY]

powder

smokless powder is a form of celleulos[?]so it does not absorbe water.the ether is a solvent to turn the mix into a fluid.other wise its like stiff jelly.water is used to wash the acid out of the mix.wartime powder sometimes retains acid and causes corrosion to inside cases.
thats why a lot of russian ammo corrodes in storage.

 

[rcmodel]

Um, many if not most powders are extruded or formed while wet.

Actually, they are not wet with water.
Nitrocellulose is wet in the fact it is flushed with water to remove the acid. Then it is flushed with alcohol during manufacture to remove all water from the slurry. It is then pressed into cakes to remove the alcohol.
Then it is disolved with a 35/65 percent alcohol/either solvent and pressed through extruder dies to form spaghetti-like strands.
These are then chopped into grains of the proper length needed for the burn rate of the powder being made.

Following the graining process, the powder is sent through a solvent recovery process using inert carbon dioxide gas.

It is then covered with circulating water for up to six days to remove all remaining traces of the solvent. It is then air dried and coated with graphite.

So no, smokeless powder is not water soluble, and if it gets wet, it will still work after it is dried out.

Primers are another matter.
Priming compound is mixed and handled wet with water.
It is extruded into the primer cups like toothpaste, and then dried.

Wet primers can also be completely dried, and you would have a reasonable expectation of them working just fine again.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

I have made a wet glob with smokeless powder. When it dries out it burns just fine. I have not tried wetting some, letting it dry, and then try it in a load, but it may work. I would be worried the properties (burn rate) might be altered, but it sounds like, from rcmodels discription of what it goes through, it may be just fine.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Cosmoline,

Black powder is actually made wet then dried

More accurately it is manufactured damp, not wet. The difference is slight but important. The moisture is usually driven out by the heat of the incorporation mill then the 'cake' is broken up and sifted to corn size.

 

[Cosmoline]

So it can be recovered if it gets damp from humidity or rain water, but not if it is immersed?

 

[Officers'Wife]

So it can be recovered if it gets damp from humidity or rain water, but not if it is immersed?

Provided you have an incorporation mill to run the stuff through. I don't think I would trust it otherwise.

 

[jcwit]

It can be dried out and used, I know as I've done it and shot it.
This in reference to Black Powder. Its even easy to make if you get the three ingrediants. Try a google search.

 

[jcwit]

Regarding smokeless powder

Not only that, many of Alliant's old "original" powders like Unique are stored underwater.

When they need to re-animate it, they dry it out, etc.

To be accurate, its stored in a sealed container "glass I believe" under water. The powder itself is not wet. They use it for testing.

 

[FM12]

RCModel: is there anything you don't know? I'm amazed at the depth and bredth of your knowledge. My hat is off to you sir!!

 

[danprkr]

Dry it out and blow up a gopher with it.

Why didn't I think of that? When I had a batch go bad, and I burned it in a cast iron frying pan to see what would happen.

 

[waterhouse]

thanks for the write up RC. Learn something new every day.

 

[SifuGun]

I cleaned some 7mm rem mag brass in a solution of white vinegar and water. I let the cases dry overnight. I still noticed some water came out of them when i turned it upside down. So put them out in the sun for about 3hours. They were hot to the touch. I started reloading them when they cooled off. And i noticed a drop of water on the case mouth of one shell. I looked in side all the shells with a light and they seemed dry. Although the plastic holder they were in seemed to have water moister residue at the bottom. Took all the shells out and dried plastic holder. Reloaded cases to spec. But am now wondering if a tiny bit of moisture could ruin the loads? I loaded them about 5 days ago. So i think any moisture would have dried by now. What do you guys think? Next time i will not soak them but just clean the outside with my water and vinegar solution. Trying to dry the inside of a tapered neck shell is not easy. It is not like 9mm straight wall brass you can run cloth into to complete dry out and clean.