Question

[HANDLOADER]

I have been loading for a long time and feel kind of dumb for asking this question. But I got to looking at some 30-30 brass and it appered to be flarred at the bottom of the caseing. So dose this mean head space problems or is a common ocurance in lever 30-30's. So if you can help me please help.

GOD BLESS

HANDLOADER

 

[454PB]

I assume you mean fired brass that has a visible bulge at the case head. Yes, that could be caused by some sloppy headspace. I always size my brass to headspace on the shoulder, even though the 30/30 is designed to headspace on the rim. Many of the older lever guns develop slightly excessive headspace over the years, which can be compensated for by using the shoulder instead of the rim to limit it.

 

[Sunray]

"...always size my brass to headspace on the shoulder..." Headspace has nothing to do with the cartridge. It's a rifle manufacturing tolerance only. Brass nor cartridges have headspace.
"...looking at some 30-30 brass and it appeared..." Before or after resizing? Lever actions, like semi-autos, require full length resizing.

 

[243winxb]

Your load might just be to hot.What are you loading, bullet weight, powder type/Grs, primer, make of brass? What make, model rifle, how old.

 

[Walkalong]

"...always size my brass to headspace on the shoulder..."

Headspace has nothing to do with the cartridge. It's a rifle manufacturing tolerance only. Brass nor cartridges have headspace.

Technically correct Sunray. But....

Real world working headspace is a combination of the brass and the chamber. If you size the case shoulder back too far you create artificial headspace, and a dangerous situation.

The rifles chamber is cut to SAMMI specs, but the brass is supposed to be made to work in a SAMMI spec chamber. It is almost always OK when new, but if we size it down too far we create artificial headspace (too much room for the case to move forward and back in the chamber)

If we fire the round with this condition it is the same as fireing a properly sized round in a chamber with excessive headspace machined in. That chamber would be dangerous with any properly made factory ammo, because it has the type of headspace Sunray is talking about.

In a properly headspaced SAMMI spec chamber real world headspace is controlled by the relationship between our sized brass and the chamber. Sunray will argue that this artificial heaspace created by oversizing is called something else, and he will likely find a definition for us, but in the real world, it is headspace, created by us, which is dangerous.

Everyone who reloads recognizes the term headspace and to pick nits about what to call that "slop" in the chamber between the loaded round and the chamber only confuses things.

Bottom line is this. Do not just screw your die all the way down and hope everyone got their tolerances correct. It might be causing heaspace in your rifle. Most of the time the manufacturers get everything right and alls well, but not always.

Take the guts out of you bolt. (spring, fireing pin) Then size your brass a little at a time until it chambers easily. Stop there. You are now sizing your brass to fit your chamber. This will eliminate excessive headspace, and most likely help accuracy.

Hope this is clear enough. AC

454PB - You are doing it right. If they don't believe me, they can just ask my friend The Bushmaster. He is very experienced with the 30-30.

 

[The Bushmaster]

And Walkalong sucks me into this...

I need two things from you, HANDLOADER...Take a measurment at the widest place on the "bulge" and is the primer backing out just a bit?

By the way...What is your load data. Bullet, primer, powder and charge weight, case and trim length?

Oh yeah...And the rifle you are using. (List got longer then two questions. Sorry, but...)

 

[454PB]

I've owned many rifles, both lever and bolt actions, where the brass would only last two to three firings before head separation. The culprit was blindly screwing the full length sizing die down until it touched the shell holder. I began the practice of using a fired case that would NOT chamber in my rifle to set my die. Start by screwing the die down until it's about .050" above the shell holder. Size the case, then try to chamber it. If it won't chamber, screw the die down 1/2 turn and repeat the fit test. Once the "sweet spot" is found, lock the die set ring. That sizing die is now "dedicated" to that rifle. Using this method, I get well over 10 loadings from my brass.

 

[HANDLOADER]

My load is 6 grains of UNIQUE with a 150 cast lead bullet with a gas check in a winchester/ Rem/Fed case with a CCI 200 LR primer.

 

[The Bushmaster]

That would be at the low end of the powder charge chart. Bump it up to the mid range.

Again... Are the primers backing out just slightly when you fire the round. If they are you will need to fit the cases to the chamber and head space on the shoulder. Fire the round and then use 454PB's method to move the shoulder forward. They must be fired in that rifle and when you have finished can not be fired in any other rifle. My old Mod 94 (59 years young) needs the die set to .030" off the shell holder.

Still would like to know the dementions of the fired and bulged cases... .30-30 brass is rather thin and do tend to expand a lot. Especially in Lever action guns because of the chamber dementions to facilitate chambering of a fresh round...

 

[NCsmitty]

If you're getting that "shiny ring" above the rim, it's getting thin from stretching. Use 454PB's recommendations and fit the brass to the rifle.

NCsmitty

 

[DEDON45]

Don't know this for sure, but maybe he's talking about the "dished-in" concave configuration of the head (the primer pocket, with a primer seated level, is not level, but below the level, of the rim) on these rounds. All my factory .30-30 brass was this way, and it's same when reloading. I don't see this type of brass in the other calibers I reload, just my .30-30. Perhaps it's to make sure the flat point of the bullet behind a round in the tube mag is bouncing off of the case and not off of the primer during recoil?

 

[The Bushmaster]

Huh?? Nooo...That's the reason for the flat or rounded soft point. Large surface area so they won't set off the primer of the one in front.

 

[DEDON45]

Just sayin, the .30-30s I've got don't have perfectly flat rims... they are a little concave. Yes, I know that the flat point is supposed to prevent the primers from going, off, just theorizing maybe the dished in heads are there for a reason. The dishing is very slight, to be sure.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I have over 2,000 preped cases for .30-30 and none of them have concaved heads. All are flat. Some of the recent CCI pistol cases are slightly concaved, but that is probably caused by a manufacturing shortcut...

DEDON45...Can you post a photo of those cases? Always willing to learn or see something new...

 

[Walkalong]

Some CCI .45 brass is concaved. I agree with The Bushmaster that it is just a cost savings measure that leaves it that way. Probably left out a step. ("manufacturing shortcut...") Not made that way specially I am sure.