Questions about gun schools...

[smince]

I live only twenty minutes from there....lucky me!

I'm close, too. I live up the mountain in Henagar.

That said, after talking to Tiger about classes, I chose to go with SI and Gabe Suarez when he came to Gadsden in 2007, 2008, and 2009. He also has Randy Harris as an Instructor in Chattanooga.

The SI cirriculum fit my needs better.

 

[CoRoMo]

I do not want to end up in a class full of Navy Seals and Special Forces guys, mainly because I think they would be way above my skill level.

Common misconception.

You could greatly benefit from training with professionals. Companies like Thunder Ranch and Gunsite are not going to even allow you to enroll in an advanced class that is full of pros. They are going to question you on your skill level and place you in the proper course. Having a few, or several, former, or active military & LE personnel will only enhance your learning IMO. After all, they are in the same class where it was determined that you should begin.

I'll recommend Tactical Response, and I highly recommend training alongside anyone who could fall under the word professional. Anyway, find a top-notch training company, and let them decide where you should start. The one thing I've found undesirable with the NRA courses is that it's sort of a crap-shoot. One instructor will offer a one-day pistol course for $30 while another will offer a two day course for $150. You have no idea what type of real training your going to get from a one-day $30 course or a two day $150 course. Many NRA instructors are in no way skilled in what they should be instructing (believe me, I'm related to one), but many are well skilled.


hth

 

[smince]

Common misconception.

Is it?

It's my understanding that many of the shooting schools require you to work your way up through their curriculum (or a very similar class from another school), regardless of your present skill level. for instance, I couldn't take Gunsite 499 unless I had already had 350, or scored expert within the last year in 250. Obviously, it's their school, and they can run things as they like.

So, the OP signs up for one school's Basic Pistol class. He could conceivably end up in a class with many very skilled shooters, if it was their first class with that particular school.

One of the reasons I chose SI over the rest: They took into account my previous experience/skill level and allowed my very first class with them to be Extreme Close-Range Gunfighting, considered to be an advanced class. I didn't have to start with their Intro to Defensive Pistol or Defensive Pistol Skills class as I would have at other schools.

 

[Trebor]

I'm an instructor and I take a classes as a student on a regular basis as well.

Here are some of my recommendations based on your existing shooting background:

NRA - Personal Protection Inside the Home - This is the NRA's "home defense" class. It's more then just shooting and is a good way to get your feet wet in defensive training without having to travel or pay a lot of tuition. It's a one-day or two-day class, mostly classroom, and you should be able to find a class nearby. Total class length is about 8 to 10 hours.

NRA - Personal Protection Outside the Home - This is the NRA's "concealed cary" class. It's also a mix of classroom and range, but more range time then PPITH. Depending on your skill level, and the instructor, you may be able to skip right to this class. (Students are supposed to show skill equal to passing the PPITH class, but my understanding is that technically they don't need to have taken the PPITH first if they show comparable skill). Class length is about 12 hours.

The advantage of these NRA classes is that you should be able to find them locally and the are fairly inexpensive. The disadvantage is that they are pretty basic for defensive shooting classes. That may be what you need, or you may be ready for a more advanced class.

You sound like you'd do fine in Gunsite 250 or the "Level 1 handgun" equivilant at any of the big schools like Thunder Ranch, Shootrite, DTI (John Farnam), Louis Awerback, etc. These classes are going to be much more focused on shooting then the NRA classes and generally be a little more cutting edge in terms of the techniques.

You should also consider Massad Ayoob's LFI 1 class, The Judicious Use of Deadly Force. It's more then just a shooting class: You'll send about 20 hours just learning about the moral, ethical, and legal implications of using deadly force. It's a great class for any concealed carry holder. The class breaks down into about 24 hours classroom and 16 hours on the range.

Don't worry about your skill level. If you are already a shooter, you'll do fine. The instructors are used to having people with a wide range of backgrounds and experience. You'll probably be in the top-half to top-third in terms of firearms experience.

When I took LFI 1 the women on the line next to me actually had to ask how to load her brand new pistol before we shot the first course of fire! She wound up getting a little extra attention from the instructors and did fine. The student on the other side of me was already a NRA instructor and former cop. Appropriately, back then I was about in the middle of those two in terms of my shooting experience and skill.

 

[Bix]

If you are in Florida, I suggest you look at the Southern Exposure training center (www.southernexposuretraining.com). Irv brings a lot of great instructors in to include guys like Kyle Lamb, Bill Jeans, Randy Cain, Pat Rogers, etc. With guys like Randy and Bill, you can get the Gunsite experience without having to travel out to Gunsite itself.

That's the first thing I though of, as well.

Indeed, it looks like there's space in Cain's 11/9 THG 101 class:

http://www.southernexposuretraining.com/schedule.php

I've not done that class, but I've had other training with Randy, and he's excellent. As alluded to above, he was staff at Gunsite for a number of years, and you can see the Modern Technique roots in his POI.

Regarding your skillset apprehension - based on my experience, you have nothing to worry about. I try to do one basic/introductory class per year. In most such classes, some portion of the students are brand new shooters and many others have had no prior formal instruction. I've shot alongside many, many students in intro classes with backgrounds that sound very similar to yours.

 

[84B20]

Frontsight in Nevada seems to be a premier training location, at least from some of the LEO's I've have talked to here in New Mexico. I have not been there yet but plan on it someday. Granted their promotion is somewhat robust but at least many of the emails I have received have had some valuable info.

 

[Ed Harris]

My advise is to focus on situational awareness and personal preparedness first.
Weapons training is only part of the package.

It is not the most important part by any means.

Recommend instead that you read the following:

https://www.just2seconds.org/

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440226198/qid=935174280/sr=1-2/002-5752944-0338812

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316085960/qid=1006205441/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_3_1/103-8525307-0431012

Then as to firearms training: I suggest that you read the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Snubby-Revolver-Concealed-Standard-Revised/dp/1581605714/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256757795&sr=1-1-spell

http://www.birdflumanual.com/resources/Self_Defense/files/Col%20Applegates%20Presentation%20to%20Police%20Firearms%20Instructors.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Bullseyes-Dont-Shoot-Back-Applegate/dp/0873649575/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256757750&sr=1-1

http://www.janes.com/security/law_enforcement/news/ipi/ipi0306.shtml

Most of the firearms training schools I am familiar with are staffed by people with egos greater than their actual appropriate experience which can be applied to civilian self defense situations. Civilian licensed carry of a firearm is entirely different from military or law enforcement. The cowboys and ninja wannabees end up dead or in jail.

Too many of the school operators focus on giving the people "what they think they want," based upon their pre-conceived notions, rather than what they need to hear, because most people don't want to hear it, and therefore won't pay for it. Some schools are mostly shooting "games" and entertainment while others are more useful for those requiring a military or law enforcement emphasis. You need to be cautious of those who follow the P.T. Barnum philosophy that there is a "sucker born every minute" and are happy to take your money.

The current discussion on Grant Cunningham's blog pretty well sums up my opinions on this subject.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/category-self-defense.html

The worshipers of the so-called "Modern Technique" of the pistol can disagree all they want, I really don't care what they think. I was taught by WWII vets, FBI agents and cold war era clandestine services operators who lived multiple missions and encounters to an old age to die in their beds. All the other stuff of movies and gun magazines is simply disinformation put out there for the benefit of the wannabee ninjas.

 

[ArmedLiberal]

Based on the email I get two or three times a day I'd say that FrontSite has the best marketing and advertising of any of the firearms schools I've seen online. I have no personal experience to judge their training.

I second the recommendation for Grant Cunningham's blog. I think he gives a big dose of real world common sense to the hype and advertising around civilian firearms training.

 

[grnzbra]

Sorry to be a little late into this thread but have been away for a while.

I have done LFI 1,2,3 and 4 as well as Suarez International's Advanced Close Range Gunfighting, Extreme Close Range Gunfighting and Interactive Gunfighting (Force on Force)

If you have any thoughts of using a gun in self defense, get thee to LFI 1. Don't know what other schools teach, but the 20 hours of "Why you don't ever want to have to use a gun in self defense" is worth every penny. The rest of the class is shooting. And he's right down there in Florida with you.

Only one problem - his web page doesn't have anything for 2010 except LFI-4.

Or you can get the classroom portion of LFI 1 by taking his Judiscious Use of Deadly Force, and then take shooting classes elsewhere.

Suarez International (at least when Gabe is running the class - you can check the schedule to determine the instructor) starts the class off (at least the ones I've taken)with a little FOF just so the students understand why they are doing what they are doing during the rest of the live fire class.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Mas does have a class coming up in May in Tuscon. Information can be found here: http://www.thehighroad.us/showthread.php?p=5183373