Questions about hollow points-

[KriegHund]

1. Has any military ever used hollow points?
2. When did they first come around?
3. How much of a difference does a HP or FMJ have on ballistics?

 

[Lucky]

Hi, I'm new, but I belive the US Miltary court ruled that it's OK to use HP bullets if you are using them for increased accuracy, such as sniper's get - and not to increase wounding. And they're more accurate because of the way the copper jacket folds over at the front instead of the base.

As for ballistics I heard (so this isn't substantiated, don't believe it too readily), I heard that HPs have more drag than spitzer bullets.

 

[Preacherman]

No military has used hollowpoints that were designed for expansion. The US military is currently issuing some 5.56mm. hollowpoints, but in match ammo configuration, where the hollow point is a manufacturing tool that is not designed for expansion.

The British used soft lead ammo in their Martini-Henry's, and the Indian arsenal at Dum-Dum produced such ammo, which is where "dum-dum bullets" got their name. Such ammo was outlawed in the Hague Conventions in the early 1900's as being "uncivilized"...

 

[mete]

Lucky, the target shooters "hollow point " is not designed for expansion. Idealy a target bullet should have a very long sharp point .However this is difficult to make and fragile. They found that if they made a small hollow point it wou not be fragile and little would be lost ballistically.But it's not for expansion.

 

[21H40]

My understanding is, currently, special units can use hollow points against terrorists or insurgents, but not against uniformed members of an opposition army.

 

[KriegHund]

I assume, if that be true, that we arent letting our forces in iraq use them only becuase the factories produce only FMJ for the military?

 

[dolanp]

Here's a little bit about the original dum dums that were around before the Hague Convention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dum_dum

 

[NoViuM]

I believe the military carries FMJ in their rifles for Armor piercing capabilities. If the insurgants manage to strap plates to themselves or are hiding behind a wall it would be nice to go through it rather than waiting to catch them exposed. As far as ball ammo in handguns. I suspect it's a reliability issue, some guns don't feed HP ammo all that well. I'm sure by now they could use it 100% but the armed forces move kinds slow when it comes to troop equipment. Look how long Stoner's rifle has been in service.

 

[Hardware]

IIRC the original production rounds issued with the AK74 in the old Soviet Union had a malformation of the copper jacket. There was a small bubble at the tip of the bullet forming a one-off FMJHP.

 

[daniel (australia)]

1. Has any military ever used hollow points?

Yes, the British Army adopted a jacketed hollow point round, the .303 Mk III, as the official service round in 1897. It was followed by the very similar Mk IV and Mk V, before the ratification of the Hague Convention of 1899. Hollow point bullets for the .455 revolver entered official service at about the same time.

More recently a 1985 opinion issued on behalf of the Judge Advocates General of the US Army, Navy and Air Force concluded that that bullets made as hollow points for reasons of accuracy rather than expansion, like the Sierra MatchKing, do not contravene the Hague accords, and so may be used in combat.As I understand it the M118 Special Ball, with a 175 gn MatchKing, is the current standard for sniper issue, replacing the M852 with its 168 gn MatchKing. Further, a 1993 JAG opinion was the basis for authorising the use by SOCOM of a .45 JHP for the H&K Mk 23.

2. When did they first come around?

Metford, among others, was working with hollow-point designs from about the 1860s, particularly after explosive rifle bullets were banned by international treaty in 1868. These early hollow points weren't jacketed though, jacketed ammunition being a development of the early 1880s.

3. How much of a difference does a HP or FMJ have on ballistics?

In the case of bullets like the MatchKing the accuracy is enhanced largely because the bullet is jacketed from the base, unlike FMJ which is jacketed from the nose. This allows the base to be formed more precisely, which in turn leads to a more consistent, stable delivery from the rifle muzzle.

As well, a large hollow tends to push the centre of mass further back, and further from the axis of rotation, enhancing stability in flight. Metford found this with his early designs. He used a very deep hollow point, often filled with some light material, and found that long range accuracy was markedly improved compared to standard cylindro-conoidal bullets. Of course the same effect could be had by using a nose cavity or nose filler under FMJ, like the .303 Mk VII.


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