Questions from a beginner... Lots of questions.

[Cousin Mike]

Hello all!

I'll ask for everyone's forgiveness in advance. There probably won't be much organization to this post, as I have so many thoughts and don't quite know how to articulate them. Unfortunately, I type faster than I think sometimes. Here goes.

I'm a city boy, no two ways about it. Never had the chance to live in a rural environment, but the older I get the more I find myself wanting to move to a quiet place and have my own land. I've always wanted to learn about hunting, just never had anyone to teach me growing up. No one in my family hunts. Very few own guns at all. I'm 26 years old, and a little embarassed that it has taken me this long to pursue hunting - but I figure you're never too old to learn.

Recently I attended a trade school out of town, and found out how in love with nature I am. I'd often find myself asking about certain animals I saw, finding deer tracks, and just being fascinated in general with being outdoors... something I never had much of a chance to do. It was sort of like being a kid again, but there was nothing childish about it. I just reconnected with myself, and felt at home whenever I got the chance to be out in the woods.

I met a good friend who attended my same class, and he's an avid hunter... hunts to put food on the table. I think he used to get a kick out of me walking around looking everywhere, amazed at every plant, bug, or animal track I came across. He told me that anytime I would like to go, I could give him a call and he would take me along with him on a deer hunt, and teach me about hunting. I was more than happy to let him know I'd be taking him up on his offer.

Of course, I have to get a shotgun, as that's what Ohio law requires for deer hunting. I also have to obtain my hunting license, permits, etc. Gun season begins November 27th this year. I wonder if it's too late in the year to prepare to take a shot (on a deer) myself. What type of shotgun would one recommend for hunting deer? I would think a 12ga. would be a little large, but I'm asking because I have no idea. I also don't have a lot of money. I can obtain a single-shot very easily without spending much money. Of course, I would get myself a better gun for next year.

I don't know much about shotguns. I have fired them before, and found myself to be a much better shot w/them than I thought I would be. Pump, side-by-side, O/U, doesn't seem to matter. I can hit almost anything I'm pointing at within reason, but I have no idea what type of shotgun I should use to hunt deer. Also, is 3 months enough time to practice my shooting for a hunt? I'm a good shot with a handgun. Unfortunately I don't have a handgun suitable for hunting.

I've been reading here for the last few days, and have been overwhelmed by the amount of information I've found. I never visited the hunting forum here before. I've read posts by Mr. Art Eatman, H&Hhunter, and many others that have awed me, made me think, made me question myself, and really opened my eyes to things I never knew or considered before. I have nothing but respect and admiration for hunters/hunting, and know that there is a lot that I could learn from the good folks here.

I know there is much more to hunting than shooting a deer, but exactly what that includes, I have no idea. I'm assuming my friend will cover a lot of this for me, but I've never gotten bad advice on THR, and I know just from reading that tons of experience can be found here in the hunting forums.

I know I will eat what I kill - and I already know that I love venison. I know I want to hunt because I feel it is in my nature as a man, and I have never been one to "fool myself" while at the grocery store. I also love nature, as stated before, and am a believer in the benefits of hunting. I have no desire to simply kill an animal. I believe that every man who eats meat should hunt for his own food on occasion. I also believe I could learn a lot about myself by hunting.

What else should I be thinking about, other than perfecting my shooting and proper load selection? Learning a little more about the anatomy of a deer would probably be good. Is deer hunting a good way to start, or should I start smaller? Can I ever become a truly skilled hunter, having grown up so far removed from nature and hunting? I almost dread the idea of going to a hunting class to get my license. I'll probably be 14 years older than the oldest kid in class.

I think the experience itself will be worth the humiliation, though. Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has to give. Finding this forum and reading here has been incredible. I'm only angry that it took this long for me to scroll down past the autoloader forum. :banghead:

 

['Card]

Great post. Great attitude. Complex topic.

Sounds like you've got a good plan, and believe it or not, you've already solved one of the toughest problems for most beginners: You've got a friend who's willing to teach you. That's invaluable. Don't feel bad about bugging him with questions, and dogging his footsteps when you first head out into the woods. I've never known a hunter who wasn't happy to pass on his skills and knowledge to another. We all learned from somebody, and teaching is an important part of the tradition.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that hunting is the only reason why you can go in the woods, though. A lot of us call it "scouting", which is when we head out into the woods before the season starts, most often in my case with a camera, and look for tracks and such. Scouting or not, it's really just an excuse to get outdoors and fart around, and you can learn a lot when you don't have the pressure of that gun on your shoulder. Talk to your buddy about where you're going to be hunting, print yourself some topo maps of the area, and then just go out there by yourself and look around. Of course, you may want to learn a bit about map reading, navigation, and using a GPS before you go out alone.

 

[longrifleman]

He told me that anytime I would like to go, I could give him a call and he would take me along with him on a deer hunt, and teach me about hunting.

Start here. No better way to learn.

I wonder if it's too late in the year to prepare to take a shot (on a deer) myself. What type of shotgun would one recommend for hunting deer? I would think a 12ga. would be a little large, but I'm asking because I have no idea.

Plenty of time. Practice. Practice. Practice. Folks use all types of shotguns, but I'll let other's recommend specifics. All I've ever used are rifles. I would recommend sights better than just a bead, unless you wait for the perfect shot.

I know there is much more to hunting than shooting a deer, but exactly what that includes, I have no idea

Yep. Pulling the trigger is really a minor part of hunting. Scouting, wether for stalking or stand hunting, is where most hunts are made. Wind, treelines, valleys, water etc have a major impact on deer travel patterns. Hunting ethics. Spending time with family/friends. It sounds like you may have an opportunity to make a lifelong friend. They can be hard to find.

Food. Food is good. It may be the venison you put for the year or deer camp cooking. There is just something about a steak pulled out of the fire with a smouldering stick. The steak you had to fight the dog for is even better.

I have no desire to simply kill an animal. I believe that every man who eats meat should hunt for his own food on occasion. I also believe I could learn a lot about myself by hunting.

If you never kill an animal you are already a hunter in the ways that matter most. You will do well.

Learning a little more about the anatomy of a deer would probably be good. Is deer hunting a good way to start, or should I start smaller? Can I ever become a truly skilled hunter, having grown up so far removed from nature and hunting?

Most all critters are put together the same way. If you can dress one size, you can dress all sizes. Skill comes from practice and experience. It doesn't much matter when you start. The only advantage kids have is that they seem to learn quickly without even knowing they are learning. Us older types may have to try harder.

I almost dread the idea of going to a hunting class to get my license. I'll probably be 14 years older than the oldest kid in class.

Is there a "Rent-A-Nephew" franchise handy. Good camoflague. Almost as good as Realtree.

Good Luck.

 

[lawson]

i remember what it was like being fascinated by every aspect of nature. heck, i'm still fascinated by it all.

not everyone is lucky enough to grow up hunting, everyone has to start somewhere. go with your buddy, the best way to learn is from someone experienced. ask to go along on a scouting trip, as learning how to find deer is the tricky part. then go along on a hunt and help with the scouting, and if your buddy brings one home, help clean it.

as for a shotgun, you can get a Remington 870 combo that comes with both a slug barrel with rifle sights, and a longer ribbed barrel that you can use for bird hunting.

 

[Chawbaccer]

Twelve guage is pretty much the standard for deer hunting although a twenty will work too. You can also use a muzzleloader over there during gun season. The 870 is a good gun, also the Mossberg 500 and the Maverick is an economy version of the 500.
Get your gun soon so that you will be already for squirrel season, its a great opportunity to get in the woods with a gun and scout for deer later in the season. Lots of times I sat on a log hunting squirrel and have a deer come up close to me.

 

[Grumulkin]

For deer gun season in Ohio you can use:

1. A shotgun.
2. A handgun using a straight wall cartridge with the .357 Magnum being the least powerful permitted with at least a 5 inch barrel.
3. A muzzel loading rifle.
4. A bow (crossbows OK).

If you get a muzzel loader, you can also use it to hunt during the muzzel loader only season.

I have a Mossberg 500 shotgun with both slug and smooth barrels. It is no frills and about as cheap as you can get and still have a good gun. I also have a Thompson/Center Encore which gives me the option of handgun, muzzel loader, center fire rifle and shotgun barrels. The Encore is a bit more pricey than the Mossberg 500 but you can get many different barrels for the same receiver which gives excellent flexibility.

The Encore is a single shot weapon but I don't consider that much of a handicap. In fact, I have never shot a deer or other big game animal with anything other than either an Encore or a Contender. Most of the big games animals only required one shot anyway. The only game I've shot with my Mossberg 500 is pheasent with the smooth bore barrel.

 

[22-rimfire]

As has been said, you have already made the first hurtle of finding someone to hunt with who is more experienced.

I would suggest that you consider taking up photography (in addition to hunting). The pursuit of nature photography will provide you with year around adventures involving plants, animals, etc. You will be buying plant identification guides, identifying wild flowers, mushrooms, trees, animals etc. It is a great thing to learn and you may well learn a lot about hunting while you are at it.

In Ohio, I believe you can also use black powder and handguns in addition to using shotguns during regular deer season. Your buddy may already do the black powder thing as it is quite popular. If you already shoot handguns and are comfortable with them, you might consider this approach to deer hunting. It can be a great challenge. You don't have to score to have fun.

If you go with a shotgun, I would just pick up a used Remington 870 pump 12 gauge. 20 gauge shotguns work well also for deer. Mossberg 500 are great too. Use foster type slugs in a smooth bore. (These are the ones that have rifling on the slug to create the bullet spin vs the sabot rounds that are for rifled barrels only.) You can always have an extra rifled barrel also. They run around $150 new for the 870. You can make shots to 100 yds with a shotgun with open sights.

Enjoy your quest!

 

[duck911]

Interesting post...

I have a slightly different perspective. Last week, a recently hired co-worker asked me what it would take to learn to hunt. He knows I am a die hard and I know that he has minimal outdoor experience, so I thought the questions was rhetorical. I told him he could come along with me a few times and watch to see if he was interested, or if he was really serious he'd need hunters safety to get a license.

That was Monday.

He started hunters safety on Wednesday.

He seemed unsure about my willingness to take time out of my season to teach a new hunter. I assured him that if I had to chose between a 200 duck/100 goose year alone, or a 10 duck/5 goose year while hooking him up on his first birds and showing him the ropes, it was a no-brainer. I let him know that I was willing to put as much effort into showing the ropes as he was willing to invest. My quote was, "As die hard as you're willing to be, Daniel..."

5 of my top 10 hunting memories ever were the first ducks or geese I helped a new hunter bag. The grin on their faces and the excitement in the air is worth more than any limit I've ever shot. I take pride knowing I helped them to experience a moment they will NEVER, EVER forget, and I really enjoy putting the gun down and working the call for someone else. How many of you can remember your first deer, or duck! An old college buddy of mine named John Durfee now lives in Montana. I haven't talked to him in years but we still have a connection we will both share to our graves even if we never meet eachother again: his first duck, a woodduck, one foggy morning at Oroville State Wildlife Area in Oroville, California.

My co-worker has just always wanted to hunt and never had anyone to teach him. He keeps telling me "don't even ASK me if I want to go. If you're going and have room, I'm there!"

So far he seems enthused and motivated, and I hope he turns into a die hard. He's asking all the right questions; How do you cook a duck? Where do you shoot a deer? Can't an elk see the blaze orange? When do the ducks start migrating?

I always enjoy hunting season. Hell, I LIVE for hunting season. I start counting down the days in MAY and begin announcing them daily at work in JUNE to liberal co-workers who think I am insane. But this year has a new, fun feeling. I am really looking forward to working my ass off to get my buddy interested in hunting. Hook, line, and sinker is what I am after. Staying away from the crowds, pulling out all the stops, shooting backup, and really having each trip afield be a positive experience.

Cousin Mike, don't underestimate the willingness of experienced hunters to help you out. I'm a hunter and enjoy the lifestyle (and that's what it is) because an old friend of mine named Tony took the time to help me out. We still talk periodically but we're not too close anymore, but not a season goes by where I don't think back to the best years where I was learning. If you've got someone willing to help out you're way ahead of the game and you have an opportunity to make memories you'll remember for the rest of your life.

Be thankful, practice safe gun handling, and enjoy the ride!

--Duck911

 

[Cousin Mike]

Thanks everyone, for your encouraging words. I plan to call my friend first thing tomorrow, and find out how he wants to go about my hunting education. He hunts a lot more than deer, and there are some critters you can shoot year round here (I assume this is the same everywhere?)… so maybe I’ll get some experience with hunting something little before deer season even begins. After I obtain a license, of course.

‘Card – you’re one of the many here whose posts I look forward to reading. Thank you for your advice. As for learning to use a GPS, that’s a prime example of something I had never thought of… although it might be some time before I’m comfortable going off in the woods by myself. At this point in time, I just don’t feel confident enough in myself or my knowledge of the land to try something like that. I’m sure once I move out of the city that will start to change – or maybe even sooner, depending on how much hunting / outdoors experience I get within the next couple of years. Thanks for the reminder.

Photography is also something I never thought of as a hobby, or an aid to hunting. It makes a lot of sense though. Also, I could imagine that would be a very fulfilling and rewarding hobby as well. You guys are full of wonderful ideas

As for shotguns vs. muzzleloaders… What’s the difference, other than the obvious? I guess what I mean, specifically, is which is better for deer hunting? I gave a quick look, and saw lots of muzzleloaders available in .50 caliber! I want venison steaks, not deerburgers... just kidding. I have no idea how a .50 caliber conical lead bullet relates (sizewise) to a 12ga. slug. Educate me?

I would imagine muzzleloaders to be more accurate… am I wrong? I’ve only heard about these recently, and the whole idea of a muzzleloader (to be quite honest) intimidates the hell out of me… I really don’t know why. I’d be more than willing to learn about them though, as that would lengthen my deer season by a few days. I’m always interested in learning about new weapons.

I need to re-learn archery. I was good at it as a child (I went to summercamp once... hehe). Bow season is Sept.30 – Feb.4! Lucky bastards, you bowhunters. For the time being, I think I’ll be going with a nice shotgun, and looking into those slugs with the rifling on them… or rifled barrels. Something else I never knew about. I think I can get a nicer gun than I planned for very little extra money. Looks like I have a LOT of homework to do!

Also, is it just me, or is Ohio hunting law just as confusing and sloppily written and its’ concealed carry legislation? I feel like I need a lawyer to interpret certain sections of the ODNR website! And is it just me and my inexperience, or is gun season REALLY short around here? Oh yeah… why no rifles? I know I’m not even technically a beginner yet, but it only seems natural to hunt deer with a rifle… What gives? Also, no CCW while hunting? Any clue as to why? As always, Ohio has to be the oddball state.

Duck911, I can only hope that my buddy is as enthused as you are to have a student. Thank you for your perspective – I always wondered if my buddy (his name’s Tim) was really excited about teaching me to hunt, or if he would just get a kick out of taking the city guy into the woods and watching me freeze my butt off . Tim’s not much for words, and he’s about as good a guy as anyone could hope to meet… But he’s a joker too, and I have no doubt he’s expecting me to provide a few laughs.

I still have not had time or opportunity to take hunter’s safety yet. I need to get on it! I’m planning to get it done by the middle of Sept. – looks like that’s the soonest I can get into anything remotely near me. I was wondering if, due to being experienced with guns, I should opt for a home course and test out of the class? Or would that not be advised due to my ignorance of hunting? The website says those with firearms OR hunting experience can choose that option.

Thanks again to everyone for your encouragement, perspective, and kind words. I’m glad to get advice from the folks here in the hunting forum. I’m reading this place like a book! Really, I have the last year worth of threads here bookmarked, and I’ve been reading as much as possible. I feel like I’m in good hands around here… I’ll continue to read here constantly, and of course I’ll be asking questions along the way – any further advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks again everyone!


Mike

P.S. - Hope to not sound silly, but bears... they scare me just a little bit. Last I heard, we do have black bears in Ohio. Can we say nightmare???

Should I be concerned, or is that my overactive imagination?

 

[Grumulkin]

A 50 caliber muzzel loader shoots a projectile a lot smaller than a 12 guage shotgun slug. In mine, I use plastic sabots with 44 caliber 240 grain handgun bullets and Shokey's Gold powder sticks which results in very little barrel fouling. Shooting a muzzel loader does take a bit more work but it's not that hard to learn.

As far as useful range is concerned, a muzzel loader probably has a bit of an edge over the shotgun. The shotgun is good to 150 yards or so; if you hit something farther than that it works fine but the arching trajectory of your slug makes range estimation very important. A muzzel loading rifle has a flatter trajectory which in good hands with a scope makes shots at 200 yards or a little over very doable.

As for Ohio hunting regulations, they're confusing if you aren't used to them. I don't think they're more or less complicated than in other states. The reason for the shotgun, muzzel loader and handgun only season is because most of Ohio is very flat. Also, a lot of hunting here takes place very close to populated areas. High velocity rifle projectiles falling in someones back yard or coming through the wall is not something the authorities desire.

Rifle hunting can be done safely in Ohio but it is well known that when gun hunters swarm for deer season there are significant numbers with less than good marksmanship and buck fever perhaps contributing to shots that shouldn't be taken. Then there is the alcohol factor. I personally agree with Ohio's deer season regulations.

Concealed carry in Ohio is a different issue. You have to be licensed or be a law enforcement officer in your jurisdiction in Ohio to carry a concealed handgun. The license allows you to carry a concealed handgun with certain privisos but not a concealed knife, rifles or other weapon. You are not allowed to carry a concealed handgun while hunting and are not allowed to carry a firearm while bow hunting.

Don't worry about Ohio bears. For one thing, you'll be unlikely to see one and Black Bears are very uncommonly aggressive as long as you're not threatening their cubs.

 

[22-rimfire]

Hunting is something you kind of grow into over time. If you went out and bought every toy that is available you would spend a fortune. The fact is that the majority of the toys are un-necessary.

Get yourself a good blaze orange vest. Buy it larger than your normal size as you usually wear it over a heavy coat. I like the one that Cabela's sells as it has pockets for shells, place for lunch, water bottle or whatever. The better ones last a long time. Really cheap ones get ripped up.

Don't worry about being older when attending the hunter safety class. It is not difficult. I have from time to time wanted to take it again just to see how they are being taught these days. Hunter safety classes were not required when I started out. Dad taught us most of what was important and we (kids) picked up the rest on our own. We were hunting most everything that was available in our area in PA. I later took the hunter safety instructors course in college.

Most people who can shoot accurately more than 50-75 yds with a shotgun for deer are folks that have the rifled slug barrels (they have rifle type sights on them) or have some sort of "scope" (call it sighting aid) on the shotgun. Folks that use plain barrel shotguns with the bead front sight are a bit more limited. Remember, most woods type shots at deer are under 50 yds. If you hunt fields, that is where you will run into longer shots. Sometimes you just don't take the shot or try to figure out how to get closer.

Nature photography is a wonderful hobby. It is a challenge to learn composition and the nuts and bolts of photography. I literally have thousands of slides of wild flowers, plants, mushrooms, animals, woods scenes, waterfalls and stream shots, etc. It provides a framework and a reason to be outdoors beyond taking a hike. You can do it by yourself or in a small group. Like hunting, it provides endless discussions about phtography, plants & animals etc. The other good part is that you can "hunt" year around with a camera.

You will find yourself constantly thinking about hunting when you see game, new places to hunt etc as you get out in the woods in your photographic quest. It is a good healthy activity.

Black bears, don't concern yourself with them. For the most part they are more nervous around you than you them. You may run into them more in the parks while doing the photography thing. Makes the days very interesting when you see one and trying to get a good phtograph. Be careful of mother bears with cubs. Mostly you don't want to be between the mother bear and the cubs. This is more likely to happen with a camera as you are trying to get close for the shot.

Be sure to practice shooting slugs on targets; paper plates work well with a wide "X" on them to sight on. Generally you are not doing precision shooting with a shotgun. Black powder guns are more like regular rifles. Slugs kick a good bit; they kick more than most other shotgun loads.

Do think about how you are going to get the deer out of the woods if you are successful. I used to drag them out with a rope. With age, I am now using a deer cart. It is a matter of distance. Deer cart makes the "drag" really easy especially if you are following logging roads or other traveled features in the woods. Like everything, you learn by doing.

Of course, look at diagrams explaining field dressing a deer (gutting). Not hard, you just have to get comfortable with it. You learn by doing.

 

[FrogClan]

Cousin Mike, welcome to a whole new layer of "shooting sports." But, as others have said, taking the shot is only a very small part of hunting. All the rest of it falls into the easy-to-learn, hard-to-master category and will give you a life-long hobby that is as challenging as it is interesting.

As for shotguns vs. muzzleloaders… What’s the difference, other than the obvious? I guess what I mean, specifically, is which is better for deer hunting? I gave a quick look, and saw lots of muzzleloaders available in .50 caliber! I want venison steaks, not deerburgers... just kidding. I have no idea how a .50 caliber conical lead bullet relates (sizewise) to a 12ga. slug. Educate me? ... I would imagine muzzleloaders to be more accurate… am I wrong?

A 12 gauge is .73 caliber. A .50 caliber muzzleloader typically shoots a ball or conical bullet around .490 or .495 in diameter.

As for deer burgers from a .50 caliber, bear in mind that the black powder (or substitute) that drives that .50 caliber slug generates a much lower velocity than the smokeless powder used in modern cartridge guns. While the diameter of the entry wound will be large, there is nowhere near the shock effect a regular smokeless cartridge gun has. This limits the effective range of muzzleloaders. I won't shoot at a deer further away than 100 yards when hunting with my .54 caliber muzzleloader. Most of my shots are taken at 50 yards or less.

As for whether shotguns are better than muzzleloaders, muzzleloaders are better in that they are still rifles with all the advantages in accuracy and trajectory they have always had over smoothbores (rifled slugs notwithstanding). Of course, there are also smoothbore muzzleloaders and very many of them are also used to take deer at ranges around 50 yards (typically .62 caliber / 20 gauge).

I’ve only heard about these recently, and the whole idea of a muzzleloader (to be quite honest) intimidates the hell out of me… I really don’t know why. I’d be more than willing to learn about them though, as that would lengthen my deer season by a few days. I’m always interested in learning about new weapons.

I say learn about some old ones! Muzzleloaders fall into a number of different categories. Some of them are vey much like modern rifles in look and design, with the powder they use and the fact that they load from the front being all that sets them apart from modern cartridge guns. Some are made of stainless steel and stocked in plastic. On the other end of the spectrum are the "traditional" guns, with flint locks or side percussion locks, browned steel, and maple stocks. I shoot the traditional muzzleloaders and, to be honest, they have pretty much relegated my "modern" deer guns to the status of dust collectors. I think that is mainly because the muzzleloaders offer a whole new set of challenges... the technology poses challenges and requires techniques more like those associated with the bow hunter than the modern rifle hunter.

But don't be intimidated by muzzleloaders, whether you go modern or traditional. Their use is best learned hands-on with someone there to coach you, but just think of it is another layer of depth to your hobby.

For some more reading, take a look at these links.

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/foods/458-877/458-877.html

http://www.learn-taxidermy.com/field_dressing_deer.htm

If you want to check out the "traditional" muzzleloading aspect, sign up to join this forum:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/

and take a look at these pages:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fid/23/tid/193483/pid/267757/

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/187664/post/201272/

 

[gotguns?]

I almost dread the idea of going to a hunting class to get my license. I'll probably be 14 years older than the oldest kid in class.

I started hunting last year. In Texas, you must take a hunters education course if you were born after September 1971. I was born in April 1972. I thought for sure, I would be the only 30 something in a class of 14 year olds.

There were a lot of 30 something year olds in the class and older folks. There were definitely some kids too. I was lucky enough to find 2 buddies to go with me, but don't worry about this. You will not be alone.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Thanks again everyone… the replies I’m getting to this thread are a big help. All this stuff doesn’t seem as intimidating anymore. Getting a point in the right direction is always nice, and you guys have proved more than helpful so far. The information about black bears is also appreciated. FWIW, I’m a little more knowledgeable about Ohio CCW than I am hunting. My reason for wanting to carry was bears, so it’s nice to know that they shouldn’t be a worry. It seems like a lot of people carry a handgun while hunting though. Any particular reason why Ohio forbids this?

As for the additional knowledge about Ohio law, it’s greatly appreciated. I forgot about Ohio’s landscape, and it now makes a lot of sense. I recently graduated from a trade school, and took some surveying and site layout. I was surprised at not only how flat, but how close to sea-level most of Ohio is. The laws also seem a lot less complicated the more I give them a look.

I’ve been looking at shotguns and muzzleloaders, and I can’t decide which one I would like to go with. More accuracy is preferable, but a .73” slug?! Wow… If I knew 12ga slugs were that big, I’d have bought a shotgun a LONG time ago for home defense. I still have some homework to do. I like the idea of some of the calibers I’ve seen available in muzzleloaders (.54", .58", .60"). Once I research ballistics, among other things, a choice should be a little easier. Of course, I’m on a budget this year, so money talks. Whatever I choose this year, I’ll likely go with the other next year as far as weapons go.

Looks like I’ll need to start stocking AA batteries. My digital camera is a real battery killer, but since it’s been brought up I’ve found myself daydreaming about it constantly. I’m about 50 miles from anything that even resembles nature, but I might get out this weekend and see what I can see. My girlfriend is really a really artsy-type too (college student, wants to be an author), so photography is something we could enjoy together.

FrogClan – the links you’ve provided have been a big help, especially the muzzleloader links. Kind of fascinating too, I never knew how popular they were! I can see why though. I still have some reading to do, but I’ve found what I have read thus far very helpful and informative, as well as fascinating. Really cool historical stuff around that forum too! The taxidermy and food links are also a big help. I need to look up more recipes. Fortunately, my little brother is a chef – so finding a way to prepare my prize (should I be lucky enough to get one) will also be a lot of fun!

gotguns?: Thanks for helping take the edge off of going to a hunting class. I’ll see if my buddy wants to go. Oddly enough, my girlfriend also expressed an interest in obtaining her hunting license.

So maybe I’ll have some people to go with.

Thanks again to everyone, as your information, perspectives, and experiences have been of infinite help to me on my quest to learn about hunting. I'm very grateful. I’ll make sure to bring more questions here as I come across them, and also let you guys know how things develop.

 

[redneck2]

There is no right or wrong. Choice of firearm is a personal thing.

Since you're just starting out, I'd recommend a shotgun. I used a muzzle loader for 10-12 years and took a lot of deer with it, but you have enough challenges without the extra effort of loose powder, loose bullets, cappers, etc.

I use an 870 with a rifled barrel. It's good to maybe 150 yards. A smoothbore would still be good to 75, maybe 100. Gives you 5 shots instead of one. I think the idea of getting the combo with two barrels is a good one. It only takes a minute or two to swap them without tools. You have the field barrel for doves, rabbits, or just clay shooting.

Either 12 or 20 would work. I have a friend that has 5 deer in the Indiana record book and all were taken with a 20 gauge smoothbore. HTH

 

[Art Eatman]

The primary source of funds for many wildlife agency budgets is hunting license fees and the excise taxes on firearms. The excise taxes are pro-rated to the states according to the number of hunting licenses sold. Everybody who's interested in any sort of critters benefits from the efforts of the wildlife biologists and game wardens, even if they don't hunt.

Note that Birders get a free ride, as do the Sierra Clubbers.

Even folks who don't hunt can help out by buying a hunting license; nothing on it says you absoulutely must have a gun and go out to kill something...

Art

 

['Card]

I was thinking about your problem this morning Mike, and decided that instead of just telling you what you need to learn, it might be a good idea to help you find where to learn it - so I farted around on Amazon this morning and put together a 'suggested reading' list that might be a good starting point for you.


Now, most hunters don't put a lot of stock into maps and navigation when they hunt - but that's mostly because they hunt on terrain they're already pretty familiar with. You're not going to have that going for you, so I think having (at least) a compass and a topo map of the general area you're in would be a good idea. Especially when you're hunting in flat country. Without visual landmarks (like hills and mountains and such) to guide yourself by, flat country is really easy to get turned around in. A decent little GPS unit is great for that, but I strongly suggest that you learn basic land navigation with a map and compass first. Once you understand the basics, learning to use a GPS is a breeze.

U.S. Army Map Reading and Land Navigation Handbook
This is essentially just an Army field manual, so it's pretty dry reading, but it's very solid and comprehensive. I still thumb through mine every once in awhile when I'm preparing for a trip.

Be Expert with Map and Compass
Orienteering is basically a way of turning land navigation into a sport. People put markers up out in the woods, and then they give the coordinates to teams which compete to see who can navigate to each marker the fastest. This book is kind of considered the "Bible" of orienteering, but the knowledge applies to "just farting around in the woods" as well. It's not as comprehensive as the Army manual, but might be a bit more user-friendly.

The Ultimate Guide to Deer Hunting: Tips and Tactics for Every Situation
There are a metric ton of books available on deer hunting. I'm just linking to this one because a friend of mine read it and said it was pretty good. All you really need is something that talks about the lifestyle, patterns, and behavior of white-tailed deer. Avoid anything that offers "tricks" or "secrets". There's no such thing.

Pocket Guide to Field Dressing, Butchering and Cooking Deer
The second most intimidating part of deer hunting for the newcomer is worrying about what to do with the deer once you've shot it. Field dressing is pretty simple after you've done it once, but that first time can be quite an experience. Pocket guides help a lot, because you can carry it with you and refresh your memory as you work. I wouldn't worry about the butchering aspect of it too much. Most people these days don't butcher their own venison. Most folks take it to a professional butcher and pay them to do it. Ask your buddy and I'm sure he knows some places in the area that will do that for you.

Oh, and the most intimidating thing for the new deer hunter? Seems like everyone has heard rumors about some kind of bizarre rituals that hunters perform when they kill a deer. "Are they going to make me drink the blood or something?" No. Nobody (except maybe Ted Nugent, but the 'Nuge is off his rocker) does that stuff anymore.

 

[Stand_Watie]

Black bears in Columbus Ohio? I'd say you should consider yourself very lucky to see one(in the manner I describe). If you were in suburban Maryland or Pennsylvania, you might have to concern youself with black bears being familiar enough with people to be dangerous, but in Ohio I think you're most likely to get a fleeting glimpse of one shambling off hurriedly many hundreds of yards distant, and lucky to see that if you do.

You're doing exactly the right thing by asking questions now instead of just going out into the woods and blasting away at every random noise.

 

[22-rimfire]

Here is a list of my to do's for preparation to hunt:

• Find place to hunt; you have a friend to start you out with both place to hunt and guidance.
• Select firearm and make purchase; if you enjoy hunting, you will buy more so you don't have to make the perfect one-time choice
• Take hunter safety class
• Sight in or shoot selected firearm to establish some basic proficiency
• Review clothing that you have on hand for the season you plan to hunt; purchase suitable clothing to get you by for the first year. Be sure to buy some blaze orange-probably hat and vest.
• Purchase topographic maps for the area to intend to hunt and familiarize yourself.
• Take scouting trip to area where hunt planned. Take map & compass with you unless area very limited.
• Look for deer sign and deer in hunting area. It gets easier to move around in the woods in the early fall after the leaves drop.
• Think about stuff you want to carry with you beyond ammunition-food, rope, compass, maps, rain gear, boots, gloves, toilet paper or paper towels, matches, lighter, ear plugs, binoculars, camera, munchies, gps?, at least one knife you are comfortable with, small flashlight, basic first aide items, extra car key, cell phone, shovel in car/truck.
• License
• Read magazine articles on deer hunting
• Familiarize yourself with state hunting regulations
• Scout area some more as season approaches; choose hunting spot and have alternatives. You may need to find these in the dark, so remember landmarks or make some strategic markings to prod memory.
• Decide on how you will handle deer meat-find butcher that does deer or do it yourself.
• Review equipment needs again and refine. There is always next year.

Lastly, have fun! It is supposed to be fun.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Since you're just starting out, I'd recommend a shotgun.

I had pretty much come to that conclusion this morning. After looking around, and doing more reading about muzzleloaders, I think I'd do better with a shotgun this year. I have to complete a class, get a weapon and become familiar/proficient with it within the next 2 months or so... so I think I'll go with the platform I am more familiar with for now. I'd love to get my hands on a Remington 870. If I can find one for less than $250, consider it owned... but I haven't seen one locally for less than $300. That's not very expensive, but if I can get a $100 shotgun (which I've seen plenty of), that would be easier for me to go with given my current financial situation.

If that's a bad idea, let me know and I'll quit being cheap.

Thoughts on H&R shotguns? Saw some nice looking H&R's online for about $113.

Black bears in Columbus Ohio?

Hey, I told ya I was a city slicker.


Seriously though, I'll be hunting in eastern Ohio - somewhere around the W.Va border. My friend lives out that way. That's also where I heard one is most likely to encounter a black bear, but I do appreciate the info and peace of mind. It's nice to know how non-aggressive they usually are. It's also been nice doing some reading about them. I'm fascinated by bears, I'd just rather not see one for myself... To a city kid, a bear is a bear.

However, the more I read, I am realizing how lucky I would be to see one. Everything I've read so far says that they're very rare here, even in eastern Ohio.

I was thinking about your problem this morning Mike, and decided that instead of just telling you what you need to learn, it might be a good idea to help you find where to learn it - so I farted around on Amazon this morning and put together a 'suggested reading' list that might be a good starting point for you.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. That was very nice of you to do. Thanks 'Card! I was actually planning on checking out the library today, so your post comes at a perfect time. What I can't find locally, I'll get from amazon.

The field dressing, well... I can't say I'm looking forward to it. I've never killed anything before, but that's one thing. I'm sure I can handle that. The field-dressing is what I've been looking up most online as of yet (well, that and guns) - and I gotta admit it looks a little greusome.. But, I can handle that too...

Blood? Never bothered me...

Anatomy? Always fascinated me...

What I am worried about is the smell...

I'm fine with blood and guts and all that stuff... I don't do so good with smells though. I know it's something I'll just have to experience, but just from what I've been told (and have read) so far, I'm almost positive I'll throw up. I'm also worried about nicking something I shouldn't (bladder, intestines, etc.), or touching something I shouldn't (glands) and ruining the meat. Those books should help a lot. The internet's been helpful as well.

I'm pretty sure my buddy will take care of dressing the deer for the first time or two. Once I know where the glands, bladder, and all that other stuff is located, I'll gladly dig in and get my hands dirty.

Seems like everyone has heard rumors about some kind of bizarre rituals that hunters perform when they kill a deer. "Are they going to make me drink the blood or something?" No. Nobody (except maybe Ted Nugent, but the 'Nuge is off his rocker) does that stuff anymore.

FWIW, I think Ted Nugent is great... In a crazy, clinically insane, creepy sort of way. I think I just like how uncomfortable he makes the vegans on his show.

It's a shame nobody does the ritual thing anymore.. I was looking forward to eating a still-beating, raw deer heart!

Jus' kiddin..

You gave me a great idea for a joke to play on my buddy though. I'll let you know how that goes over.

Even folks who don't hunt can help out by buying a hunting license; nothing on it says you absoulutely must have a gun and go out to kill something...

Noted. Thank you Art, I had no idea that those taxes went to anything worthwhile. I know several people who would never hunt, but would probably get hunting licenses just because of the benefits for wildlife organizations. I'll spread that information around to anyone I think will listen. Thanks again.

22-rimfire: I'm printing out that list as is. Thanks again... That's about as comprehensive a list as I could ever hope to have. You're a big help!

FWIW, you guys have been the biggest help ever. Your willingness to help point me in the right direction, share information and experiences, and put up with me and my questions is greatly appreciated. I only hope that other hunters I may meet along the way are as nice and helpful as you guys have been. I can't thank you guys enough.

 

['Card]

I don't do so good with smells though. I know it's something I'll just have to experience, but just from what I've been told (and have read) so far, I'm almost positive I'll throw up.

Don't worry about throwing up. I mean, yeah... you'll probably hurl, but we've all done that. It's no big deal. Hell, I've been hunting for 25 years and killed enough deer to fill a dump truck, and I still gag sometimes when I open one up. I shot one once that had been eating pokeberries, and I think everybody within 200 yards of that mess performed a technicolor yawn before it was all over with. You puke, rinse, spit, wipe, and go back to work.

I'm also worried about nicking something I shouldn't (bladder, intestines, etc.), or touching something I shouldn't (glands) and ruining the meat.

Don't get too worked up about that part. Yeah, you should be careful, but it's not as if one drop of deer-nasty is going to make the entire carcass turn to putrescent Jello right before your eyes or anything. Most of the time you can't help but spill a little bit of it. If you do, wash the area out with your canteen, or drag the carcass to a nearby stream and wash it out that way. It's not the end of the world.

It's a shame nobody does the ritual thing anymore.. I was looking forward to eating a still-beating, raw deer heart!

*chuckle*

True story. My uncle's daughter married a 'city slicker' named Ron 6 or 7 years ago. Nice kid. Had never been hunting but he was really interested, so we kind of took him under our wing, got him outfitted, and took him along hunting with us. He learned fast, and really seemed to enjoy it. On the third or fourth day of the season that year, we set up a little drive with Ron in the sweet spot, and he nailed a nice 7-point buck. Perfect shot through the lungs and heart from about 50 yards away.

So we all gathered around to help him field dress it. Once that was over and we were all standing around getting ready to drag it out, Roy asked nervously "Ummm... is there some kind of tradition or... thing, we have to do now?" My uncle looked at him and said, perfectly deadpan "Yeah, see that steaming gut pile over there? We're gonna shove that up your ass." To this day I start laughing when I think about the look on Ron's face.

 

[22-rimfire]

If you hit them in the front shoulders (heart lung area), there is very little smell that is particularly bothersome to me when field dressing a deer. Remember this is a fresh kill not something that is lying around rotting. The visual in combination with the blood is what bothers most.

Deer anatomy is pretty simple relative to field dressing. You just have to be careful when you cut down around the groin area where the bladder is. You will see it. Sometimes it comes out when you roll out the stomach and intestines. You try to leave as much as possible intact and just cut where things are connected.

One option on a gun might be the combination black powder, rifle, shotgun single shot Omega. Different barrels for each. I don't know the price. I still have not taken the plunge into black powder hunting and I have plenty of shotguns and rifles for deer hunting.

Hit the gun shows NOW for a shotgun. You may find what you are looking for for under $300. Pawn shops are another place to look. I would choose a Remington 870 as additional barrels which run around $150 are commonly available. I believe the Bill Goodman shows are held in Dayton monthly which is not a huge run for you.

One area in WV south of Charleston is where I saw more black bears than anywhere in my life. Had one really spook me when I was taking pictures of it. I actually have just head shots. I gained some serious respect with keeping your distance. Problem was it was coming to me.... stood up, then gave me one of those fake charges up to about 25 feet away.... talk about the hair standing up on my neck! It happened so fast, I doubt that I could have pulled a handgun if I did not have it already out. This is the exception rather than the rule. The bear was just telling me to get the heck out of his space.

One of the "traditions" inflicted on me as a teenager interested in wild plants was eating a Jack in the Pulpit root. Uncle says they are called Indian Turnips and the Indians ate them.... one bite.... I still chuckle about that one and sometimes take the opportunity to pass on the experience.

 

[wolfe28]

Thanks for the post.

Mike;
It just goes to show that if one person asks a question, there are probably 15-20 people thinking of asking the same thing. I'm 32 and I'm hoping to go on my first trip this fall. For me, one of the added reasons that I want to go is to get a chance to go with my uncle. He's almost 90, and doesn't have too many hunts left.
That being said, when I lived in Ohio, I started looking at what type of gun I would want to take with me if I had the opportunity to go hunting (anti hunting parents, city kid, so on and so forth). Here is one that I liked, both for price and accuracy.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/ultraSlug.aspx

American rifleman or one of the other publications had a writeup on this several years back. Basically, they said that the gun was built off of the next size up barrel blank (10 ga blank for 12 ga), making a heavy but accurate rifled shotgun.

Good luck, and thanks again.
D

 

[FrogClan]

Cousin Mike, if your local WalMart sells guns, check out their prices on the Remington 870. If memory serves, they carry the Express models for right around $250. If they don't have one on the rack, ask to see the special order catalog under the counter in the sporting goods section.

 

[MNgoldenbear]

Mike, I was 28 when I took hunter safety. Don't let it bother you. I was also not into firearms at the time; needed it to bowhunt. (Actually, I was/am afraid of loud noises -- still nervous in a room with balloons , though now gunfire doesn't bother me anymore . Go figure.) Still remember the instructor firing a blank in the room to drive home the notion that any gun should be considered loaded -- he'd taken a new gun out of his case and no one in the class asked him to clear it, so he went ahead and scared the heck out of everyone! There were a lot of people, young, older, male, female in the class -- and EVERYONE learned a lot of safety lessons, and hopefully we continue to learn.

As far as the CCW thing, too bad they don't let you there. In MN we can, unless bowhunting -- and you can if bowhunting for bear. Question -- were you thinking of the CCW for backup while bowhunting or firearms (shotgun)? If a bear or any other large creature that could be a threat were to become an issue during a deer hunt, I think I'd rather take a poke at it with a 12-gauge loaded with slugs than anything I normally CCW (usually a 9mm or .45ACP. Change to .44Mag or .357Mag during deer season).

As far as shotguns, another vote for the 870. The rifle sights are easier to line up than the beads but either will work at close range. I've tried a rifled, cantilevered barrel with a scope, but think I may have been better off with the iron sights. The sabot slugs for the rifled barrel are also a LOT more expensive (~2 to 5 times) than the rifled slugs I was using, and didn't seem to group as well. Cost isn't a big issue for the hunt, but I like to practice quite a bit too. $15-20 to fill the magazine vs $3-10 makes a big difference to me on the practice range.