Questions on a sad old gun I saw yesterday

[critter]

Had a friend bring a gun into the local gun shop that he had been given and intends to place in a shadowbox as he is afraid it is past 'shooting age'.

It is a S&W double action in 32-20 with a 6" barrel but the end of the barrel looks to be way too square to be factory. It has the screw in the top corner of the sideplate. It has been rusted up some and 'refinished'. It looks to have been buffed HARD AND HEAVY before a reblue. The front sight is buffed way down, all markings from the barrel are gone. Sides are buffed very wavy and although the S&W logo is visible, it is just barely so. The cylinder pin retaining lug under the barrel has been broken off and cobbled back on (maybe soldered) and has quite a gap between it and the barrel.

The gun looks a lot like an M&P and there is NO markings on the cylinder crane gap to indicate model, etc. The SN is still visible on the but and part of it is visible on the back of the cylinder. Grips are 'aftermarket' (home-made) and quite poorly I might add.

It seemed to function and would PROBABLY shoot IF one were brave enough. That is not intended to be done.

Just wondering if somebody might be able to identify it for me from my description. Sadly, I do not have the SN, & as I said no model number is present.

Interesting old warrior anyway.

Thanks for any opinions.

 

[David E]

From your description it's a Smith & Wesson 6-shot double action revolver chambered in 32-20 and possibly has had the barrel shortened.

 

[bubba15301]

s&w model 1905

 

[critter]

Thanks.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Technically they were called the .32-20 Hand Ejector. Built on the same K frame as the M&P. The only real difference being the caliber.

The first model of the 32-20 Hand Ejector was the same as the Model of 1899. This one can be distinguished by the fact that there was no locking lug under the barrel in front of the ejector rod. Made from 1899 until 1902, Serial Numbers from 1 to 5311 with 5,311 made.

The 32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1902 was the same as the M&P of that model. This was the first one to have the locking lug for the ejector rod under the barrel. SNs 5312 to 9811 with 4,499 made from 1902 until 1905.

32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1902 1st Change SNs from 9812 to 18125 with 8,313 made from 1903 until 1905.

32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 SNs 18126 to 22426, 4,300 made 1905 to 1906.

32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 1st Change, SNs 22427 to about 33500, roughly 11,073 made 1906 to 1909.

32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 2nd Change, SNs 33501 to 45200, 11, 699 made 1906 to 1909, over lapping with 1st Change.

32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 3rd Change, SNs 45201 to 65700, 20,499 made from 1909 to 1915.

32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 4th Change, SNs 65701 to 144684, 78,983 made 1915 to 1940.



Don't bother looking for a model number under the crane, S&W did not start doing that until 1957.



This one is a 4th change, shipped in 1916:

 

[Derry 1946]

Nice example, Driftwood. What's the barrel length on that one?

 

[critter]

Thanks for the wonderful info and the picture. That is "IT" exactly. Just sad that the one I saw was mistreated so badly.

I'll pass the info on to the owner and perhaps he will include it in his shadowbox display with it.

 

[evan price]

One thing I'll add- the ejector rod end knob shape. Driftwood's example has a large mushroom-shaped ejector knob (with the matching cutout in the bottom of the barrel underlug) which dates the 1905 4th change to a pre-1930 manufacture. After 1930 they went to a smaller knob more similar to the modern knob. It's not an absolute guarantee of date of manufacture, since S&W- like all manufacturers- used up existing stocks of parts well beyond the official change date as long as they had them.
This picture is one I found of a lettered K-frame listing date as 1929 with the small knob- compare it to Driftwood's gun, above:


Also note that Driftwood's example does not have a rollmark of "MADE IN USA" on the right side of the frame just below the cylinder window. You can see it in my picture of the lettered S&W above. S&W started putting that there to combat the Spanish knockoffs in the twenties.

 

[Radagast]

I've notes in my Standard Catalog of S&W stating May 1922 for the first Made in USA stamp, 1930 for the large ejector rod end and 1929 for the reintroduction of the medallions in the grips. I've no idea where I picked up that info though.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Nice example, Driftwood. What's the barrel length on that one?

6".

Evan:

One small correction. The revolver in the photo you posted is not a K frame. It is exactly what the letter says, it is a 22/32 Heavy Frame Target model, often known as the Bekeart Model. These guns were built on the 32 Hand Ejector I frame, about 7/8 the size of a K frame. Phil Bekeart was a San Francisco based dealer and S&W distributor. He was the first to suggest building a 22 Hand Ejector target revolver on the 32 Hand Ejector I frame. Up until that time, the only S&W 22 revolvers with swing out cylinders were the tiny M frame Ladysmiths. Hence the name 'Heavy Frame' It is easy to mistake a I frame revolver for a K frame because the I frame is basically a scaled down K frame. It is easy to tell the I and K frame guns apart when they can be compared in size.

In this photo the gun at the top is a K frame K-22, the other two are I frame 22/32 Heavy Frame target models.

 

[W.E.G.]

Sounds like an old Hand Ejector.

The nomenclature for these guns is a bit confusing, as there are references to "Models" and "Changes," and the terms have different significance.


.32-20 WCF Hand Ejector (Model of 1905 - 1st Change)

- 4, 5, 6, or 6 1/2 barrel, blue or nickel, grips same as above, round or square butt. 11,073 mfg. 1906-07. Serial number range 22,427 to approx. 33,500.


.32-20 WCF Hand Ejector (Model of 1905 - 2nd Change)

- caliber, cylinder, barrel and grip specifications same as above. 11,699 mfg. 1906-07. Serial number range 33,501-45,200.


.32-20 WCF Hand Ejector (Model of 1905 - 3rd Change)

- caliber and cylinder same as above, 4 or 6 in. barrel, finish and grips same as above. 20,499 mfg. 1909-15. Serial number range approx. 45,201-65,700.


.32-20 WCF Hand Ejector (Model of 1905 - 4th Change)

- caliber and cylinder same as above, 4, 5, or 6 in. barrel, finish and grips same as above. 78,983 mfg. 1915-40. Serial number range 65,701-144,684.


.32-20 WCF HAND EJECTOR (MODEL OF 1905)

- .32-20 WCF cal., (revolvers manufactured until approx. 1916 were marked .32 Winchester, .32 WCF between 1916-1928, and late production was marked .32/20), cylinder and barrel specifications same as above, with round or square butt grip. 4,300 mfg. 1905-1906. Serial number range 18,126-22,426.


.32-20 WCF HAND EJECTOR FIRST MODEL

- .32-20 WCF cal., 6 shot fluted cylinder, 4, 5, 6, or 6 1/2 in. barrel, blue or nickel, case hardened trigger and hammer, hard rubber with "S&W" monogram or non-monogrammed walnut grips, round butt style.


.32-20 WCF Hand Ejector Second Model (Model of 1902 - 1st Change)

- grip also available in checkered walnut. 8,313 mfg. 1903-05. Serial number range 9,812-18,125.


.32-20 WCF HAND EJECTOR SECOND MODEL (MODEL OF 1902)

- .32-20 WCF cal., 6 shot fluted cylinder, 4, 5, or 6 1/2 in. barrel, blue or nickel, hard rubber with "S&W" monogram or walnut round butt style grips. 4,499 mfg. 1902-1905. Serial number range 5,312-9,811.

 

[Jim K]

Critter, are you sure the gun is even an S&W? Many of the cheap Spanish copies imported in the 1920's and 1930's were in .32-20, and not all have blown up yet! Those guns often carried markings intended to look like S&W markings, including "USE SMITH & WESSON CTGS", and trademarks with intertwined letters that resembled the S&W logo.

Jim

 

[evan price]

Hmm, I should have read the Jinks letter. I was more looking at the ejector rod and nothing else.
Never heard of a Beakert model before.

 

[critter]

Yeah, we're sure it is a true S&W. I'm aware of the 'forgeries'.