quick detach scope mount that will see over the front site on AR

[Bullseye]

I was looking for a 1 pc quick detach riser rail that I can mount a pair of scope rings on and use a scope on a Sigarms M400 that will look over the bayonet lug/front site. I don't really want to get a gas block and fold down front site and mount a scope directly to the rifle.
There are times that I might take off my red dot which is a lower 1/3 co-witness and just clamp on a scope for the range or varmint shots.
I don't need anything fancy or expensive. I would just like to see over the front site and not have it obstruct the view in the scope.
I am reloading .223 now and want to be able to see where I am hitting through an extra scope I happen to have that I think I could use in this way.
I found a 1 pc 1" high with knobs for 12 bucks ( see attachment )

I'll post later how this works out.

 

[rcmodel]

Seeing the sight in a scope is not a problem, because you can't see it with anything over about 4x.

It is too close to the scope to be in focus so you can't see it.

Mounting high enough to go over it would make getting a good cheek weld impossible.

rc

 

[jmr40]

I fail to see the problem. As RC said, you won't see it above about 3X or 4X anyway. Even on lower magnification it is not a problem. I have 1-4X scopes on 2 AR's. On 1x or 2X I see the front sight in the lower portion of the scope. But it obstructs no more of the view than when using just irons.

 

[Sam1911]

Yes to what rc said. You won't see that front sight block if your scope is greater than a certain (low) power level. It just disappears from the view.

Having a scope mounted way up high enough to be above the front sight ears is going to make shooting it quite uncomfortable and unstable, unless you add so much of a cheek riser that you're way up off the stock.

Like the old H-BAR Delta Elites.
[resize=500] [/resize]

You're out nothing if you try it and what we're saying doesn't work just perfectly.

 

[herrwalther]

RC took the words out of my mouth when I read the OP. Just said it much more easy to understand. It will largely depend on what type of scope you use. Fixed vs Variable and the power. If you are going with fixed and 4x, Aimpoint ACOGs come with a quick disconnect knob to take off the sight and use backup iron sights if you have them on. The downside to them is the cost. Another option is to use a hybrid sight setup. Red dot more forward on the rail with a 3x magnifier closer to you along the rail. Can move the magnifier over for target or long range shots, and have it go away for closer ones. These kinds of setups used to cost over 1000 but are much cheaper now.

 

[Bullseye]

Thanks for the replies.

I thought for sure that the front sight I have ( like the one in SAM1911's image ) would have to mess up my view through a scope. I'll have to give mounting a try without the rail and see what things looks like mounting right to my present rear rail. Just thought I had to get above that front sight. Never would have tried or thought of it before.

I also didn't put any thought into the cheek rest. Anyway, the rail I bought was only 12 bucks shipped so it's not going to go to waste or be a great loss. It will be good for something.

 

[henschman]

Pretty much all of the one-piece AR scope mounts on the market are taller than the plane of the iron sights by at least 0.1", many more like 0.2". Incidentally that's why I don't use them -- it doesn't allow for a very good cheek weld. As long as I used one piece mounts, the front sight wasn't an issue on my 4x scope. It was just a blur in the bottom of the FOV. When I switched to a lower optic mount setup that gave me cheek weld, it became a blur in the middle of the FOV. So now none of my scoped ARs have fixed FSBs anymore.

Am I reading it right that you are planning to mount the scope straight to the upper receiver? This isn't going to work very well, if you want to be able to get in any kind of a proper shooting position. You need some kind of cantilever mount that will allow you to get the optic farther forward.

 

[Bullseye]

I'll post a pic when I get this done. I think it will work. It's hard for you guys to picture this in your mind without seeing it. There is also a cheek riser for my magpul stock that comes in three heights and they are easily put on and off without tools if I need one. Only around 20 bucks.

 

[Bullseye]

So I try a scope on it without a riser ...

Holy Cow!
Sam and RC:

Yes to what rc said. You won't see that front sight block if your scope is greater than a certain (low) power level. It just disappears from the view.

AR-mazing ... I am looking right through as if the front sight isn't even there!
I am so glad for this forum. Without the scope on looking through the rings my front point blade is dead center in the rings.
With the scope on there is no sign of a front sight and my variable 3x9 Center Point is crystal clear. It's not a great scope but it can handle what I want to accomplish which was to see handload results on paper at a distance.

Couple big screws and the whole thing is off and I can stick my rear sight and TRS-25 dot back on. It's a budget set up but it does the job. I can also sight in my laser better with the scope. Now I have a 1" rail coming that I'll use for something else I guess.

Only downside is it is slightly difficult but not impossible to use the charging handle with this particular scope.

 

[Sam1911]

Now, just looking at things in the pic, I'd imagine that scope sits so far back it is very hard to get behind it and still keep a normal shooting position (nose to the charging handle and all that). That's what henchman's talking about with an offset mount.

These will get that ocular bell up where it needs to be.

[resize=600] [/resize]

[resize=600]

[/resize]

Those also make it quite a bit easier to catch the charging handle. Though if you really have trouble you can get the extended kind like this Badger.

[resize=400]

[/resize]

 

[OpticsPlanet]

Skip the riser ring combo

I'd go with the Burris PEPR mount

it will get you set up right for a reasonable price.

-Matt

 

[Hookeye]

I ran the Burris riser blocks and Burris Zee rings for my Redfield Revolution 2-7X. Also ran a larger tab on the charging handle.

IMHO it was twice as big as it needed to be, only need one slightly larger than factory.

The big ones snag on stuff.

On the riser blocks........ran two on my flattop. Position such that a RR stand alone rear sight fit behind the rearmost. Left the blocks on all the time. Just swapped scope or rear sight as needed.

Got tired of that and just left the scope on. Sold it.

I run another CAR with irons now. Might clock a reddot on it, but no more scopes. Have other rifles set up for that.

 

[Bullseye]

"nose to the charging handle" like shown in the middle pic of Sam's post #10


That must be a term for proper shooting stance with these AR's and I probably have been getting in closer to my red dot and rear site like that without even thinking about it but I have held this up to look through with the scope on the way it is as if to shoot and it isn't all that uncomfortable.
There isn't a lot of eye relief with this inexpensive scope.
I'll probably use it on a bench with the bipod and a stock sand bag and if I can make use of it well enough to see what kind of groups these handloads and factory loads do at the range I might even tote it along with the 22-250 to visit Mr. Groundhog sometime.
My Sigarms M400 is normally set up for closer encounters with acceptable lower end accessories. So far my cost of switching from scope to iron and red dot, back and forth, has only cost me $12.00 for something I really didn't need in the first place.

LATE EDIT: Checking out a youtube of Stance for AR-15 Action Shooting - Jerry Miculek

 

[henschman]

I highly recommend attending an Appleseed weekend marksmanship clinic with your AR. You will learn a lot about proper position and many other fundamentals.

www.appleseedinfo.org

 

[Driftertank]

Be aware that the Magpul cheek risers will obstruct the charging handle on an AR unless you run the stock ALL THE WAY out.

 

[Bullseye]

I moved the scope forward. I did shoot a few out back tonight and it is shooting quite high at 40 yards. Maybe a foot. I only have a metal target down there but it was comfortable enough to shoot. Got a grab on the charger handle better but still not as good without the scope. No big deal.

 

[Bullseye]

I read another thread and post 29 here made a lot of sense to me. My scope is now riding on top of a 1 inch riser.
Although it rides high above my barrel, I bet it will shoot straighter.

 

[1911 guy]

Hate to break it to you, but that post by mistwolf is a little bit of snake oil. There is no "hole" in the group he showed, only a rifle that is not properly sighted in. If what he claimed were true, there would be 1/2 the group to the right of the bull and 1/2 to the left. But it's all to the viewers right.

I'm not a scientist, optometrist or even a guest at the local Holiday Inn. But i can tell you that the front sight base goes unseen by the scope because it is too close to the scope front objective to be resolved in your vision. Has to do with magnification. The lower the magnification, the closer it can be seen in the scope. For example, a 2X scope will probably show a front sight post. A 12X scope won't show a soda can hanging off your muzzle.

There are two "best" ways to mount a scope on an AR, in my opinion (worth what you paid for it). First, is to mount it as low as possible, the same as any other rifle. My varmint gun, a heavy barrel AR, is set up this way. The other option is to use the right rings to get the center of the scope 2.6 inches over the center of the bore. This allows you to use the sight/zero tables published by Army Ordnance if you choose to use M855 or M193 ammuition.