Race Baiting?

Status
Not open for further replies.
L

lizziedog1

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
942
Location
The Silver State
Yesterday I purchased a new gun, a 20 gauge slug gun to be exact. I drew a deer tag for a shotgun only area. Anyway, this thread is about the Federal form I filled out.

It asks for the buyers race.

Race questions can not be part of job applications, rental applications, loan applications, and just about any other type of application. The rationale is to prevent discrimination.

Then, how come the feds can ask about race in purchasing guns?

You'd think the ACLU, or some other civil liberties group would be all over this like white on rice.( no pun intended) I mean if a minoriy was denied a firearm purchase, he or she might wonder if it was race related.

Just wondering how they are getting away with it?:confused:
 
A couple of points....

1. Race and ethnic identity questions are permitted on employment applications, and many other documents for entities bound by non-discrimination laws for statistical data collection and to assess compliance with with EEO regulations. The information, however, can't be used as the basis for denying employment, etc... In (public) education, there is actually requirements to collect such identifying information on students through school census- data collection programs. In instances where parents and/or students refuse to supply information, school officials are required to identify the student to the best of their ability.

2. More likely than not, no federal employee is ever going to look at the 4473 you filled out. If they do, it will be either a cursory glance over during a compliance inspection or review related to a criminal investegation in which you or the store owner are a target. In either case, it has no bearing on whether or not you will be authorized to purchase a firearm. Race is not a per se disqualifier. Unlike certain state licensing statutes (which allow for need, character, and suitability denials/ revocations) NICS is based purely on per se criteria (e.g. felony conviction, MDV, adjudication, fugitive, etc...) NICS doesn't know or ask which box you ticked on the form. Collection information about your racial/ ethnic background in this instance is to aid in identifying the purchaser if needed.
 
It's an additional means of physically identifying the purchaser to the NICS system (if required). It's obviously not a way to discriminate against the purchaser racially, because in a face to face transaction the dealer sees the purchaser in front of him. The dealer can decline the sale for whatever reason, and doesn't need the form to do so. (This was discussed in another recent thread.)
 
If they ask just answer correctly (don't want to lie on any gun related application), what different does it make. only illegal buyer are worried anyway.

ps---thats not race baiting
 
Pre-Employment Inquiries and Race

In general, it is assumed that pre-employment requests for information will form the basis for hiring decisions. Therefore, employers should not request information that discloses or tends to disclose an applicant's race unless it has a legitimate business need for such information. If an employer legitimately needs information about its employees' or applicants' race for affirmative action purposes and/or to track applicant flow, it may obtain the necessary information and simultaneously guard against discriminatory selection by using a mechanism, such as "tear-off" sheets. This allows the employer to separate the race-related information from the information used to determine if a person is qualified for the job. Asking for race-related information on the telephone could probably never be justified.
Click to expand...

This I got from the EEOC website. As you can see, asking about race is generally frowned upon. I also know that California has more stringent laws about this, as they have about evrything else.

If I was an African-American and I was denied a gun purchase I would immediately march into the nearest ACLU office.
 
I cannot see the objection, as it is a means of identifying a person, and has nothing to do with discrimination.
We may not like the laws, but they exist, so we either obey or just do without.

Regards,
Jerry
 
The OP is correct in that the federal government is not allowed to ask race questions as a qualification item.

I believe the SSN is the only "optional" block on the form though.
 
It is probably just for idintification purposes.

My drivers license lists not only mt my race, but my height, weight, hair color, eye color and age.
 
If I was an African-American and I was denied a gun purchase I would immediately march into the nearest ACLU office.
Click to expand...

And they'd tell you that you didn't have a case. There are a few things that can cause a NICS denial, none of them have to do with an individual's race.
 
Revjen45,
[My "race" is Native American because I was born in the USA. All of my ancestors were Euroids.]
Is that what you put on your CCW application? How about drivers license?

Jerry
 
Easiest answer is also the wrongest answer:

It asks for "race" but lists MY only option: "WHITE". So that's the "race" I am. BINGO. Dao
 
I cannot see the objection, as it is a means of identifying a person, and has nothing to do with discrimination.
We may not like the laws, but they exist, so we either obey or just do without.

Regards,
Jerry
Click to expand...


....no offense, but the reason we have these stupid rules is because we don't stand up and object to it.
 
lizziedog1 ....Race questions can not be part of job applications, rental applications, loan applications, and just about any other type of application. The rationale is to prevent discrimination....
Click to expand...
The Form 4473 is not an application, but a record of a firearm transaction. Plenty of Federal forms will ask about race.

jackpinesavages I believe one of the options on the form is to not answer it, correct? That is how.
Click to expand...
No one can force you to answer any of the questions on a 4473. Of course your refusal to answer means you won't be getting a gun from a gun dealer.

mp510:...NICS doesn't know or ask which box you ticked on the form....
Click to expand...
Absolutely incorrect...NICS does ask the race/ethnicity of the buyer.

lizziedog1:...This I got from the EEOC website. As you can see, asking about race is generally frowned upon. I also know that California has more stringent laws about this, as they have about evrything else.

If I was an African-American and I was denied a gun purchase I would immediately march into the nearest ACLU office.
Click to expand...
Uh.......a Form 4473 isn't an employment application. The EEOC has as much authority over gun laws as the ATF does over employment practices....NONE.

Standing Wolf I always lie about my race. I put "human."
Click to expand...
Sure you do:rolleyes:.
The 4473 must be completed as it is, failing to answer a question or getting cute means no gun for you. (not to mention committing a Federal crime by intentionally entering false or misleading information)

revjen45 My "race" is Native American because I was born in the USA. All of my ancestors were Euroids.
Click to expand...
Really?:rolleyes:
"Native American" isn't even a choice on the Form 4473.

theotherwaldo I always have trouble with this question. My ancestry includes all of the options except Eskimo/Pacific Islander.
Click to expand...
The instructions included on the 4473 tell you to select the closest representation of your race/ethnicity.
 
[..no offense, but the reason we have these stupid rules is because we don't stand up and object to it.]

I don't think it is stupid so why should i stand up and object? I basically agree with the rule for identification.

I also don't fight windmills.
Jerry
 
I asked this very question of my dealer last week. He said it was required so they could identify the buyer by more than just height and weight.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
Southern Methodist University affirmative action bakesale
2
Replies
30
Views
754
MPFreeman
M
P
  • Locked
Letter from 'Ole Lautenberg
Replies
5
Views
517
BOBE
B
B
  • Locked
ethnicity and race on Form 4473
Replies
1
Views
896
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
nwilliams
  • Locked
Should Ethnicity and Race matter on 4473?
2 3
Replies
62
Views
3K
Sam1911
S
A
  • Locked
thoughts on another aspect of Heller
Replies
1
Views
381
Hypnogator
Hypnogator
Back
Top