Random hypothetical that's been bugging me

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rra_casper

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OK, so here's the situation:

I'm walking around at night, carrying a concealed handgun...let's say it's a 1911, because it's my imagination. A person steps out of a dark alley with a knife and demands my wallet. Now, I know there are an infinite number of variables here, which would influence whether or not I shoot the guy; however, I think in many cases simply drawing would be sufficient. But let's say I legitimately fear for my life, and let's say I shoot him dead.

Now, here's the real question. Obviously, the first thing I am going to do is call the police. They are going to arrive at the scene (in due time) and...then what? What steps have police taken in your experience, in order to verify that it was justified, etc?

OK, now say it's been decided legally that I was justified and the law is done with me. Am I vulnerable to civil action from, say, an irate family?

And one more theoretical question: if I end up going to court, would it be a good idea to be as forthright as possible about my firearms collection, i.e. "Yes, your honor, these are all the guns I own, here are the serial numbers, blah blah blah...?" Or would it be a good idea to just clam up and only reveal facts that are relevant to the case at hand? I keep going back and forth -- on the one hand, it would be a gesture of good faith that I have nothing to hide (which I don't). On the other, it might help to portray me as a fanatic gun-nut who owns wicked "assault weapons" (which I do) and thus hurt me and the cause as a whole. Do I even have a choice, or will my entire life be subpoenaed?

Just hoping that someone can share experiences or insights. Thanks.
 
The question on if you could be sued would depend on where you live. Here in Georgia we no have a "Stand your ground" law that protects you if you have to shoot to defend yourself.
 
With no one to dispute your account of what happened, the police will probably assume the dead guy with the knife got what he deserved, especially if the police recognize the dead guy as one of the local hoodlums/crooks.

The law, court case decisions, and the political climate of where the shooting took place will determine what happens next.

You can always be sued for wrongful death even if the district attorney decides the shooting was justified or a grand jury decides not to issue an indictment.

You don't have to reveal anything in a criminal trial unless you choose to waive your fifth amendment right against self-incrimination.

In a civil trial for wrongful death you have answer all questions. There is no fifth amendment protection.

Pilgrim
 
In a lot of places the knife wielder has to be within a certain distance in order to justify your use of lethal force. Let's say he was, and you dropped him.

Make sure you're the one to call 911, and say "There's been a shooting, please send an ambulance and the police to this address (wherever you are)." Thank the dispatcher and hang up. Do not elaborate or say another word.

When the police come, you should expect to be arrested. You should not utter a peep until you have a lawyer.
 
In a lot of places the knife wielder has to be within a certain distance in order to justify your use of lethal force.
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Can you give some examples?
Make sure you're the one to call 911, and say "There's been a shooting, please send an ambulance and the police to this address (wherever you are)." Thank the dispatcher and hang up. Do not elaborate or say another word.
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It is always good to be the first one to call. You can set the stage for how the play turns out. The police, for example, would like to know if the shooter is still running loose and a threat to them and the public.
When the police come, you should expect to be arrested. You should not utter a peep until you have a lawyer.
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Certainly a safe way to protect your rights, but almost a guarantee you will spend a night or two in jail. I don't see anything wrong in steering the investigation in a direction favorable to you by stating the basics. The guy (shot) stepped out of the alley. He had a knife in his hand. He told me to give him my wallet. I shot him. I thought he would stab me. I would like to talk to an attorney before I say anything more.

If you play difficult and say absolutely nothing, you will have no influence on how the police conduct their initial investigation. They will have a corpse (if you are lucky), a knife, the gun they find on you that has been fired, and a thoroughly uncooperative witness. If the robber is still alive and thinking, he will certainly volunteer a story that puts himself in a good light and makes you look like the bad guy.

Which would you prefer?

Pilgrim
 
Tell the cops who & what are relevant to the incident. "He attacked me, she saw it, that car about to drive off has bullet holes in it." - that kind of thing, short & factual, just identifying relevant evidence.

Beyond that, let your lawyer do the talking. Common words have legal meanings that are not what you think, and can destroy you in court. (Just like saying "I'm sorry" at a car accident pegs you as guilty.) Too many people tell their lawyer "I didn't tell the cops anything", and then the lawyer finds out the client already gave a full (albeit inaccurate) confession.

"There's the evidence, X Y & Z. I will cooperate fully once I obtain legal counsel."
 
not to sound cold hearted, but Pilgrim makes a valid point.

If the attacker is alive then he can offer a story which puts you in the wrong.

I'd sugest not leaving him that option, once you've made the decision to use deadly force.
 
Once a BG goes down, do not take any other measures to ensure he is dead. Witnesses seeing you put an extra bullet in him to make sure will most likely at least mean your prosecution, if not conviction. You are entitled to use deadly force to stop the threat, not to kill a BG. There is a difference, and once the threat is stopped, you must stop also.
 
Anyone can file a civil suit against you at any time for any reason. Then it's up to the court to decide if the case has enough merit to continue to trial. Either way, you'll have to hire a lawyer until the case is resolved. As others have said, your lawyer should be the only one talking. Only a fool tries to defend himself in any court bigger than a traffic or small claims court.
 
I'm not a legal expert at all, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I would offer a "who, what, where, when, why" statement to the Police, a short statement of the facts with no lies. "At about 8:30, I was passing by this alley, on my way to meet friends for dinner. This man comes out of the alley and pulls a knife, demanding money. I feared for my life because he said he would kill me if I didn't give it to him. I pulled my licensed firearm and emptied it into his face:) ."

If the Police want more information than that, they'll need to speak to my Attorney.
 
"I was in fear for my life and I defended myself. I will offer my full cooperation after I consult with my attorney."

Then shut up and get ready to spend the night in jail.
 
Oh, you will. Shutting up and spending the night in jail is better than talking and spending the next 10 years in jail.
 
distortion9,
You may have just signed your own murder confession with that. Seriously. Words don't legally mean what you think they do, what you say WILL be used against you, and you most likely DON'T have the whole story exactly right. The brain does strange things when faced with a deadly situation that goes down fast. Politely - and persistently - ask for your lawyer, and don't say anything else other than pointing out relevant evidence & witnesses.
 
It seems to me that these questions are best asked of an attorney in one's own state, rather than on the Internet. It's difficult to be perfectly clear as to meanings, for one thing, and our general knowledge of the law is not always correct.

It's otherwise when we who respond can cite specific references in text from official sources such as law books or court findings. Still, "Every case is different."

Art
 
Great Question...

My $.02 is to A) ask to be read your Miranda rights or B) let go. Once you request your Miranda rights and then deny making any statement until your attorney is present you cannot be questioned; I just went through something similar and won since I knew this fact.

I did exactly what I wrote above. After being read my rights the officer continued to question me, despite the fact I deferred to my attorney (who is on retainer, something I strongly recommend); the judge would not allow any of our conversation / video to be admitted as evidence since I "lawyered up" at the right time. The case went my way.

You have to keep in mind that you are innocent until proven guilty. As such, don't give "them" any information that will be used against you. Have your attorney speak for you and earn his / her money. Until your lawyer arrives, your best defense is respectfully declining to comment until you've had a chance to confer with you lawyer.

I hope you never have to experience this situation. If you do, be prepared for what happens after. We spend a lot of time learning to defend ourselves up to an incident, but seem to give very little thought to do if it hits the fan.

Good luck and stay safe.

Take care,
DFW1911
 
ask to be read your Miranda rights or B) let go.
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Amen to that!
"I was in fear for my life and I defended myself. I will offer my full cooperation after I consult with my attorney."
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And to that!!

In a self defense shooting situation, my policy would be that when the police start asking questions tell them, "He was going to kill me. I was in fear for my life. I defended myself."

Beyond that, one response: "My attorney will answer all your questions. I wish to remain silent."
 
OK, wow, great food for thought. My family has a pretty awesome lawyer who has done a fair bit of work for us, so I think I'm covered in that respect...I'd better get his number, just in case.

And thanks for the advice that trusting the internet is not always a good idea...however, it seems like a concensus that "get a lawyer and shut up" is a good cautious way to go about it, so I will keep that in mind.

If I may: what if the scenario went a different way? Say he pulled a knife, but was still 10-15 feet away? I pull my gun, and he takes off, not wanting to screw with someone better armed (although naturally, if he had a gun I would without a doubt shoot first). If he runs away, should I call the police and tell them what happened? Should I get in my car and leave that part of town, and then call? Should I drop to my knees and thank God that I didn't just have to kill a man? Hug my wife and go on about my business?

I've heard the advice that the act of drawing the gun is a threat of deadly force, so you should be prepared to shoot before you do so; this seems logical...however, I have a hard time getting over the power of the gun to diffuse the situation without firing. In THIS situation (dark, few/no witnesses, against an obvious criminal), am I making myself vulnerable by drawing the gun but NOT shooting him twice in the chest?
 
Ajax gives the worst advice on this thread.

No offense, but you shoot to stop. Once the threat is over, and the evidence indicates you executed the attacker, you are going to be in a world of legal hurt.

Following advice like that will very possibly put you in jail.

Please consult a lawyer or self defense specialist in your home state. Remember that legal advice on the internet is worth what you pay for it.

For the first poster especially, all of your questions are things that would be addressed in your state's CCW class. I would really recommend that you take one if possible.

I teach the Utah CCW class, and I spend about two hours on this topic alone, and my state laws are probably very different than yours.
 
I am NOT a lawyer, or a CCW instructor.

What happens afterward depends VERY GREATLY on your state law. For instance, some states have stand your ground/castle doctrine law, while others have 'DUTY TO RETREAT'.

A couple of things I very much want to see in every states CCW law..

Once the Grand Jury/District Atty/Prosecutor says "Good Shoot", that should be the absolute end of it. No suits from deceased perps family regarding wrongful death, etc.

Statewide "pre-emption". None of this patchwork of local law restricting/modifying how the CCW works. Once you get the state license, it is the same everywhere. Some cities here in Ohio are trying to pass their own "No CCW allowed in City Parks" or similar stuff. One of the Ohio courts ruled that the CCW was over-ruleable by the "Home Rule" provisions.
 
Art Eatman said:
It seems to me that these questions are best asked of an attorney in one's own state, rather than on the Internet. It's difficult to be perfectly clear as to meanings, for one thing, and our general knowledge of the law is not always correct.
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Excellent advice. My earlier post reflect the advice of my attorney (who has a good deal of experience in this area).

He instructed me to be the first one to call 911 and to ask the dispatcher for an ambulance and the police and give the address, then hang up. You are being recorded. If you describe what happened (as others have recommended), there is a great risk that in your excited state, you will not choose your words carefully enough.

Pilgrim said:
I don't see anything wrong in steering the investigation in a direction favorable to you by stating the basics.
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My lawyer does. I'm taking his advice.
 
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