? re: Bolt Cam on 1860 Colt Clones

[randys]

The bolt cams on the hammers of my 1980's vintage Armi San Marco 1860 Colt revolver replicas appear to be "removable". Not integral with the cast hammer.

The cams appear to be relatively soft. Wear is even, not threatening bolt function, currently. I want to replace the cams at some point.

IF:
- I purchase and replace with new hammers, I risk losing previous trigger, pawl, rear sight, timing, hammer stop, and nose-to-cone work.
- Buy new hammers. Remove, soften, form, re-harden, and install new cams in old hammers. (Is it that easy?) Not inexpensive.
- Buy new cams. I don't see cams for ANY maker's revolvers. Where to buy, if any?
- Make new. I don't have a lathe, and would probably go nuts if I tried to use files and stones on that small of work piece.

What say you?

 

[skeeterfogger]

I have heard of people build up welding the area and shaping it. Since yours are removable it should be fairly easy to copy it. A dremil and calipers probably all you need. Hard to know without seeing one. Never saw a removable one.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Randys, what I normally do is shorten the height of the cam anyway (since they are all a little tall) so it may be that yours isn't as bad as you think.This basically gives them a new surface which in essence equals a new cam. A pic., in this case, would be nice.

But, as to your question -
New hammers will change everything (not sure about your hammer stop as that is usually a screw mounted on the trigger guard). It is possible/probable you would need other parts as well.

- One other option is to "punch" the removable cam out and "clock it" by rotating it clockwise to introduce new material which can be dressed into a new complete working surface. (Hint, you can make a "witness mark" on the backside so you can tell how far it's been rotated.)

New cams - it's easier and faster to make new cams than to look for ASM parts.
With calipers, get the diameter of the present cam, find a suitable drill bit of the same size (turn down using a drill motor and a belt sander if needed). Now, use the calipers again for the stud size (mounting stud) and turn down the drill stock using the aforementioned drill motor and belt sander.
Install new cam after trimming the stud. Shape the cam with rotary diamond file (dremel or like tool).

Mike

 

[entropy]

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...60+Army,+1861+Navy,+Remington++.36,+S.A.+Army

This part here?

DGW has them.

 

[randys]

Thank you for the replies.

sf: No welder, TIG or otherwise. Copying should not be so bad, but small, hard steel and I don't get along well.

45dragoon: Would you anneal drill bit piece, first? Re-harden once complete? Especially in absence of belt sander (fast metal removal?) Rotating the cam in hole sounds interesting; current xs wear is on side, not sloped surface. Bolt leg goes up ramp, but improper shape causing vertical groove in backside of cam as leg falls off. Cam seems too soft, regardless. If Dixie part mentioned by entropy did fit, would you re-harden that part with single quench from cherry red? "rock hard"

entropy: That is the part, BUT is it The Part? Is it drop-in compatible? (Listing infers original Colt fit.) I'll have to spend 5 & shipping to find out. I used to check Dixie frequently, just for gp. Surprised i missed that one. Always the only catalog in the duck camp outhouse with all its pages at the end of each season!

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

I once replaced the cam on the hammer of a Remington NMA with one I made out of a 1/4" grade 8 bolt shaft with rudimentary tools.
It was probably a 2-3 hour job all told if I recall correctly.

 

[45 Dragoon]

ML, that's how ya do that!!

Randys, the " store bought " cams are/should already be heat treated. Since you don't have the tools, the best thing would be to reinstall the one you have (turned of course). I still doubt that you need to do that though. Just because there is a mark doesn't mean it's worn out. The bolt arm is too thick which is why it marks the cam (way too much tension).
I would clean up the cam surface, polish it, thin the left bolt arm at least half its thickness (thin it from the inside not the outside). You probably should spread it very slightly outward so it will stay on the cam as long as possible. Here again, pics would be nice. (The bolt arm too)

Mike

 

[entropy]

Thank you for the replies.

sf: No welder, TIG or otherwise. Copying should not be so bad, but small, hard steel and I don't get along well.

45dragoon: Would you anneal drill bit piece, first? Re-harden once complete? Especially in absence of belt sander (fast metal removal?) Rotating the cam in hole sounds interesting; current xs wear is on side, not sloped surface. Bolt leg goes up ramp, but improper shape causing vertical groove in backside of cam as leg falls off. Cam seems too soft, regardless. If Dixie part mentioned by entropy did fit, would you re-harden that part with single quench from cherry red? "rock hard"

entropy: That is the part, BUT is it The Part? Is it drop-in compatible? (Listing infers original Colt fit.) I'll have to spend 5 & shipping to find out. I used to check Dixie frequently, just for gp. Surprised i missed that one. Always the only catalog in the duck camp outhouse with all its pages at the end of each season!

There are no such things as 'drop-in' parts for this type of firearm. It's not an AR or 10/22. You might have to do a bit of filing or such. And yes, the DGW catalog was always good reading at cabin, as well as Gary Olen's early Sportsman's Guide catalogs.

 

[randys]

No pics, hammers in post, off for some other work. Thanks, all, I have good options for this project.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Humfffff

 

[45 Dragoon]

No pics, hammers in post, off for some other work. Thanks, all, I have good options for this project.

"Off for some other work" , "no pics" are you kidding me?!! Sorry we were waisting your most valuable time! Obviously I'm a slow learner!!

Hmmmmm . . . yer welcome. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully this will help some folks that were actually interested in this thread . . .

If not, sorry I wasted your time and mine . . . maybe I should bow out . . .

Mike

 

[randys]

Ya missed 'em by a day. Having spurs lowered by a respected CASer. Didn't think it was that arcane of info that lurkers wouldn't know "cam". Great thought on thinning bolt leg: too much pressure, imminent failure delayed for a period.

I don't think my Uberti revolvers have separate cams. I'll pop open an un-stamped 1860 in a parts box tonight, it might be a CVA/ASM, drive out the cam, take pics. Color, or does sepia-effect make them easier to see?

 

[randys]

My questions focused on cams in general. Not too worried about the notch on this asm.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Yep, you just concentrate on that cam. Nobody knows anything about what's going on around here!!

Mike

 

[45 Dragoon]

"Lurkers" yap I'm a lurker
You are too full of yourself!!

Let's see, been a member before me but 28 posts! ??

Ok you don't need any help from me or anyone else!

Mike

 

[45 Dragoon]

Oh wow!! I happen to have many hammers being "worked on" by a "well known" CASer!!

Good luck in your future endeavours!!

Mike

 

[randys]

What did I do that deserves the **psycho** routine??? Anyone?

I asked a simple, friendly question, hoping to gather info from the experienced here. Including Mike Brackett. My revolvers were disassembled, and it reminded me of the cam issue. The hammers were in shipment via the US Postal service, thus, I can't take pictures. I don't need to have pictures to get my question answered!

I don't know if Silver Wolf Wild West Creations is well known, or not, but they offer to turn down the hammer spurs on Colt clones, among other services. I'm trying to ease arthritis issues while shooting one handed.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Well this is obviously how things happen when it's "email/ texting" when there is no contexting involved!! I don't read minds any better than anyone else!! What is anyone supposed to think ?

If you need help, I'm more than happy, but if it's a "trolling" exercise, I don't have that kind of time!!

Mike

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mike...quick question. Do you always thin out a bolt leg? What exactly do you use to do such a job?

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

When the Goon posts on a thread - man, I READ it and then I THINK about it. Then I'll reread and think some more.

Mike...quick question. Do you always thin out a bolt leg? What exactly do you use to do such a job?

That's a great question Outlaw. I'm also wondering where on the leg the thinning takes place. My understanding is that the trigger leg is usually about right, as is. (??}.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Outlawkid/ EGD, I chuck the bolt up in a vice with a "backing plate" ( also known as a thick feeler gauge leaf, for resistance) and I use diamond files to "finalize" the thickness.

Lol!! EGD!! I was interrupted while posting so . . . thank you so much!! I am surely honored!!!

The thinness of the arm is very important to the life of the bolt! Remember, a sapling bends, an oak breaks.

So, what you want to do is round the corner where the left bolt arm joins the bolt body. This will "distribute" the stress that arm gets when flexing. That will extend the life of the bolt!!

Mike

 

[TheOutlawKid]

About how much do you take off? Do you have a certain sized thickness you aim for? Would you happen to have a picture of one already thinned out? Thank you sir!

 

[45 Dragoon]

That in turn removes a lot of resistance the hammer must overcome when asked to ignite a cap!! Another source of resistance is the hand spring tension . . .


Mike

 

[45 Dragoon]

Outlawkid, here's a comparison .
The bolt on the right has the corner rounded already. Bolt on the left is done (as far as thining the arm). You can also see that these bolts arms are a little longer than normal.

Mike

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Yeah i always lighten my hand spring tension and as you already know from previous convos i set up my bolt and trigger spring from two seperate wire springs. That alone really lightens up the tension and trigger pull...but i want to try to get my set up even better. About 12 years ago i had added a "shrapnell sheild" to my hammer and have made it a standard...turns out you do the same but i think you call it an action sheild? I first did it to keep caps and fouling from getting into the action, then added a cap post to help with cap jams as well .