Reason for .303 ammo scarceness

[Cal-gun Fan]

I was wondering why .303 british ammo was so much more expensive than other surplus ammo like 7.62x54r. Then I remembered a book I recently read, Charlie Wilson's War. Not sure how many of you have read it, if you haven't it is a great read about the American effort in the Afghan war of the early 80s.
In it, there was some emphasis placed on how the CIA was scrambling to find weapons and ammunition for the Muj. They already had plenty of the Lee Enfield rifle from when the British had been a force in the Middle East.
It talked about how the CIA bought up every bit of .303 british ammo they could and sent it all to the Muj.
Been wondering if this is maybe one of the reasons it is so expensive?

 

[briansmithwins]

Obsolete cartridge that hasn't been fielded by a major power for going on 60 years.

BSW

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

That and WWII surplus was cordite propellant with poor shelf life. Brits were one of the first to standardize on NATO 7.62 also. I'd say supply was scarce from get go.

 

[BrocLuno]

But, as far a hunting rounds go - it's not all that expensive now. Prvi Partizan is usually under $20 a box

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

unless you have a rifle chambered for it already, there really aint a need for this round as there are plenty of rounds far superior and more readily available.

 

[Jeremy2171]

That and WWII surplus was cordite propelant with poor shelf life. Brits were one of the first to standardize on NATO 7.62 also. I'd say supply was scarce from get go.

The propellant was fine..it's the primers that went bad....

 

[BrocLuno]

unless you have a rifle chambered for it already, there really aint a need for this round as there are plenty of rounds far superior and more readily available.

Hmmm... maybe, depends on what you want to do? 303 is a fun round and will do a lot depending on bullet

 

[aka108]

About 20 yrs. back there was a glut of HXP (Greek) 303 on the market. Seems the price was about 34 dollars for 500 rds delivered. It lasted about 2 years and fell from advertising. Great stuff. Reloadable, etc. Was also some British WW2 stuff that came on the market but it was click---bang stuff and corrosive.

 

[Curator]

Scarce due to supply and demand. Privi-partizan is excellent quality but usually US$1.50 per shot. Buying Sierra 174 grain Match king or Hornady 174 grain round nose I can still load them myself for about 45 cents per round with better than factory accuracy. Cast boolits bring the cost down to about 15 cents per shot since the brass will last 20+ reloadings.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

OK I think you guys do this just to get me goin.... The .303 British is an awesome round. It comes from an era when "the sun never set on the British Empire". It has killed about every game animal in the world. Is found and has been used in armed conflicts on every continent. It was contemporary with other great battle cartridges such as 30-06, 8x57 Mauser, 8mm Lebel, 7.65 Belgian and Argentine,7.62x54R. As far as superior cartridges go, I challenge anyone to come up with a main battle cartridge that was in primary use longer, or had more historical significance, on a global scale, than the .303 British. Geez I should write ad copy.

I would cheerful hunt any thing in this hemisphere, with the .303.

 

[kingcheese]

if you get away from surplus ammo then it cost about as much as other rifle ammo, maybe a buck or two more for a box, about the only milsurp you can find is from turkey i believe i was told, and it is awfull on your gun

then you get into the fact that there where far more weapons made for 7.62x54r then is even possible to imagine

beltfed machine guns of all kinds, mosin nagants, early sniper rifles of the semi auto variety, carbines of the mosin nagants, and all the non-russain counterparts to feed thoose guns they needed a ton of ammunition and anyone that could make it did, a lot of the ammunition that is still available was made 30-40 yearss ago

 

[Threeband]

7.62x54R is still in active front line use.




-------------


Long ago, I saw some old newsreel footage of the British Navy dumping crate after crate after crate of surplus .303 into the North Atlantic. Entire shiploads of surplus ammo were apparently just dumped.


Coincidentally, many of use lost our entire gun collections in a similar fashion.









--------------------

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

From what I've read on the subject, 303 primers were corrosive mercuric berdan, common to almost all military cartridges of that time frame. The only component not common was the Nitro Cellulose base Cordite. It was in a strand form not unlike spagetti. The manufacturing process resulted in batches that were inconsistant in both formula and performance, it led to a rather intricate system of cataloging both for tracking degradation and safety reasons. It actually had an expected failure time table. The instable nature of the Nitro Cellulose, usually manifested by creating an acidic gas. This in turn affected the priming compound. It also in some cases resulted in a wide variance of chamber pressures.

The effects of shooting corrosive primers only harms your guns if you don't clean them immediately after firing, soap and water, will effectively neutralize the salts, and preclude any damage to your rifle.

 

[Ignition Override]

If small bits of surplus (Pakistani POF "click-bang"?) can somehow be found, what is the advantage?

Unless somebody sells it very cheap as a favor in a personal deal, why pay about as much for the unreliable ammo with corrosive primers elsewhere, when a box of new reloadable Prvi only costs about $14/20 rds. before shipping?

If you have a 2-groove bore, you can find ammo which is not Boat Tail (SP BT).

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Three band 10points! I will agree the 7.62x 54R, is legitimate competition for 303 BRIT. I just got my back up a little at it being called obsolete. I don't consider a cartridge obsolete until I can no longer get components. Sorry if I got preachy.

It might be splitting hairs on the difference between active frontline use and Guerilla/Insurgant use. they're still fighting with 303 too.

 

[BrocLuno]

I'm saving my brass to reload. Love having a bolt rifle with a 10 round mag (and a 5 if I need to make Mr Game Warden happy?) that looks and handles well. Mine is completely sporterized with peeps. I really like the 303 to shoot and I don't see a down side?

I have other rifles for other jobs, but for average centerfire shooting I can't see a better one in my safe. If I want more "hit" I'll drag out an 06. And, if I want lighter or shorter, I have other choices. But, I really like my 303

 

[nathan]

the decline of the Brit EMpire marked an end to all its glorious history. SO goes the .303 cartridge as well. Then comes the 556 and 762 Nato.
Get the Privi Partizan 303 , they are as good as the old ones except non corrosive. I got several boxes and just use it for hog hunting with my No 4. Its an exotic round for now, lol.

 

[DougW]

The Russians still use the 7.62x54R today in machine guns today. The British stopped using the .303 in the late 50's or so, and the production of ammo stopped shortly after that. 3rd world countries kept making ammo, but their storage procedures were not up to snuff. Greek HXP is an exception, but most of that ammo was made in the 60's. Look for modern 30.06 US milsurp ammo. Stopped making it in the 60's too at the mil armories. The source will dry up eventually, even for the 7,62x54R. Look at the 6.5x55 Swedish or the 7.65 Argi. .303 is drying up, and junk ammo is about all that is left. I started reloading .303 about 8 years ago to get away from the corrosive surplus ammo. I still have a bunch of South African his away for a rainy day (or the End of Time, which was today, I think).

 

[Limey46]

I agree with most others that the best .303 ammo out there right now is the Prvi. Their 174-grain FMJ load duplicates the Brit military round exactly, except it's non-corrosive.

The original poster raised an interesting question about .303 ammo for Afghans fighting against the Soviets in the '80s war. That was indeed an issue at the time, and two major suppliers responded. One was South African, unsurprisingly, but the other was Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Belgium, who cranked up a new production line. Almost none of it got out onto the commercial market, but I found some of the FN stuff and fed my Enfields on it for years.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

I agree with most others that the best .303 ammo out there right now is the Prvi. Their 174-grain FMJ load duplicates the Brit military round exactly, except it's non-corrosive.

The original poster raised an interesting question about .303 ammo for Afghans fighting against the Soviets in the '80s war. That was indeed an issue at the time, and two major suppliers responded. One was South African, unsurprisingly, but the other was Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Belgium, who cranked up a new production line. Almost none of it got out onto the commercial market, but I found some of the FN stuff and fed my Enfields on it for years.

There was a third major source too-farmers in...god I forget the country...but they were mushroom farmers in a European country with entire caves filled to the top with these rounds. The CIA was able to get all of it to send to the Afghans for about 6 cents a round!

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Have any of you guys bought or shot one of those abbreviated No.4s, I think they call it a tanker. I'm sure its loud as all hell, but I still kind of want one.

Also how is that ammo pronounced? I got a Prvi behind the house.

 

[Sunray]

NIH. Not Invented Here. Mostly because the cartridge is British and only available in commercial hunting loads. 60 years of non-military use is a bit much, but the supply of good surplus ammo is gone just the same. The CF destroyed the best .303 ball ammo ever made, long ago. Shot some 1944 vintage DA ammo, while in the Queen's Service, that made the 1985 issue IVI ammo look like the mediocre crappola it was.
"...the CIA was..." They couldn't find their butts with both hands. The Afghan tribesmen didn't need or want rifle ammo. Stingers to sort out the Hind gunships, yes, but not rifles or ammo.
"...WWII surplus was cordite propellant..." Some left over from W.W. I, but the Mk VIII ammo used smokeless.
"...abbreviated No.4s, I think they call it a tanker..." No such thing. You may be thinking a No. 5 Rifle, AKA a Jungle Carbine, though. A No. 5 Rifle is not a cut down No. 4. Looks like a No.4 receiver, but there's far more to a real No. 5 than a short barrel and a flash hider. Go here. http://www.enfieldrifles.ca/ri.htm
In any case, any Lee-Enfield must be checked for headspace and have the barrel slugged. Thousands have been assembled out of parts bins with no QC. Lots of 'em have bad headspace. The barrels can have ID's from .311" to .315" and still be considered ok. Over .315", the barrel is shot out.
Commercial factory ammo uses .311" or .312" diameter bullets. Won't shoot well out of a .313" plus barrel.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Apparently I have to be more specific, again, I fully realize a tanker No. 4 was not an original British Issue weapon.I have the NRA Pamphlet . In this country, somebody is shortening No4,MkIs , they exist, an importer is making them. I can't remember who. But I have held them in my hand. I have also looked at No5s or Jungle Carbines. And I'm sharp enough to notice the difference right off.

I take umbrage with your crack at the CIA, I wish I could tell you why, but you don't have the clearance. Note they found Bin Ladens ass with both hands.

Thanks for playing.

And, God save the Queen.

 

[Ignition Override]

Sunray:
According to a National Geo. magazine from about 1996, the Inuit Border Patrol by the norther Canadian border were still being issued Enfield #4 rifles.
A photo depicts a guy standing (!) Next to his snow mobile, killing from about 40 yards a large polar bear, reportedly with one shot.

Somebody furnished a link to a more recent set of photos which depicts people training with them.

You guys have more restrictive gun laws, but at least you appear to have a good selection of Enfield #4s and the recent imports of Russian SKS rifles!
If you have decent prices for the rifles and ammo, you have some nice options.

My only hang-up with one of my 2-groove Enfields is the need to avoid BT bullets in it (they "key hole" at 100 yards). The other does well, so far.
That's the only Enfield glitch that I've found, and the "Jungle Carbines" are my favorite guns, just ahead of #4s.

RugerMcMarlin: Lots of our people seem to believe that instead of no-injury (enhanced) interrogations, which easily might have saved lots of womens' and childrens' lives, we should have simply driven the captive Taliban to Starbucks Coffee, instead, and provided UC Berkeley psychologists there to help them deal with their difficult childhoods....

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Ignition Overide, OOH Rah!