Recent manufacture Hi-power review(long)

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bigjim

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Recent manufacture Practical model report
Browning Hi Power Practical Model Manufacture date March 2003

I received this pistol as a Christmas Gift. Yeah that's right a Christmas gift not a holiday gift. Live with it.

I don't know what my wife paid for the gun but I imagine it was around 700 dollars. I opened the package inspected the contents and found in the box; the pistol, two magazines, a manual, Two spent shell cases in a envelope for ballistic finger printing. The shell casings were a disappointment because they were not re-loadable. This is a shame because I figure if one firing of the case would make them a good way to identify
my pistol, firing them ten or fifteen times should really make the cases useful.

I had to brace myself a bit because while I own a number of other guns I really only shoot 1911 pattern pistols. I knew the trigger was bound to suck. I was right it did. ( more on this later) The two magazines were of the reduced capacity variety. They had little springs on them near the floor plate to help them eject past that silly magazine safety. This in my opinion is what you get when you go in search of a answer to a non-existent problem. The unneeded magazine safety, requires the addition of a silly flimsy spring to get the mag out of the gun. Fortunately there is plenty of other wise wasted room thanks to the ten round limited magazines. Wait a sec I will be right back I need to take some antacid.

Fit and Finish.

I must say FN is making some nice guns for Browning. The hard chrome frame is nicely done. Really good for a factory gun. I have heard that the guns FN is producing for Browning are nicer than the less expensive versions marketed under the FN name but who knows for sure. Mine is nice and that is good enough for me. The slide of course is a black finish. It looks almost like some kind of polymer finish, as opposed to a traditional blue. I could be wrong. I do know that it is very even and attractive. FN did a nice job with the sharp edges all nicely broken and the gun is comfortable to manipulate. I have to say the slide is not as easy to grasp as a 1911 and do to the lower weight of the reciprocating mass it has a stout recoil spring. Still the gun was fast to clear and I got plenty of chances to clear malfunctions on my first time out with it. (more on that later)

The grips that come with it suck. Those wrap around rubber things are an abomination in the eyes of God. They make the grip huge, slow the index of your hand during a draw, and have the same kind of class as a big gold chain around your neck. I have a set of nice checkered wood grips on order. (Internet purchase 5 mins after opening the box) To get by, I took the rubber back strap off and cut the front strap off as well. Much better. Feels less like a latex Coke can and more like a gun already.

The frame and slide as well as the other parts are correctly fitted. This is not to say target pistol tight. This is not a target pistol as a primary design imperative. Does this mean it can not be used to shoot targets? Of course not! But there is some room in the fit of the gun for heat and dirt build up. This is the way a pistol is meant to be built. I like this.


Range session:

I took my new little toy to the range and shot it for a few hours on steel plates in a pouring rain. I did this for you the reader. Because I knew you could not wait even one more day for my range report. I am a selfless bastard or what?

Ammo brought with me: 200 round speer 124 FMJ factory ammo. 100 rounds, Reloads 125 RN over 3.4 grains of 231. ( light load) and 100 rounds of reloads 125 RN over 4 grains of 231. ( full power).

I started with the light loads. I had so many malfunctions, failures to eject, that I was getting really good at the old tap, slap and rack routine clearing the stove pipes. Not enough powder. I did not panic because I new it was a new gun and the load was WAY light. I struggled through this stuff and broke out the factory load. 200 rounds without a problem with this more powerful load. As an added bonus the trigger was starting to settle in nicely. It was getting really crisp and the grit and creep was pretty much gone. Last up was my full power reloads. Once again no problems noted.

I have no idea how accurate it is. I was just blasting steel as fast as I could for fun and to break the pistol in. This thing sure points nice. It¡¦s easy to shoot it FAST and get hits on steel. Part of this is do to the low power and minimal recoil of the itty bitty 9mm cartridge.

Took it home and broke it down to get the water and crud out. No unusual wear or any thing scary at all. Cleaned up quickly and went back together without incident. I am a gun tinkering fool. I love to screw around with my pistols. But I think I will leave this one alone. Except for one thing, that silly magazine safety is coming OUT OF THE GUN.

I am not a super big fan of Hi-cap 9mm pistols to begin with but I think this gun is a good as any out there. It has a John Browning FEEL to it. It can be recognized as one of his efforts. (At least part of it, I understand there were other contributors to the design) I can see why so many police and military organizations have used this pistol over the years.

I like it and would recommend it to someone that has use for a pistol like this. I feel the current (FN) Browning offerings are very good and represent a good value in today's gun markets.

I will post pictures in follow up posts

Jim
 
I also got a new HP Practical for Christmas. The fat grips came off before I even fired it. It worked fine with FMJ ammo, so five minutes after I got home from the range the mag disconnect was gone. It's a very nice looking pistol. I plan on enjoying it. Watch-Six
 
That's a nice present!

Yep, the Hi Power doesn't like really light loads, it needs 'em a little heavier. They've got it sprung pretty darn heavily, as you probably noticed (32# mainspring and usually a 17# recoil spring), but that will ease up once you've shot it more.

Those grips that come on the practicals are great, aren't they? :scrutiny: I highly endorse the Uncle Mike's/Butler Creek grips.

I'm no fan of the Magazine Safety, but they can be pretty tough to get out sometimes (like on mine). The plus side is that if you polish the "shoe" and the front of the mags, they will fall right out. An alternative to this (or what I did) is just play with it a lot. Take your two mags and practice tactical reloads, pop 'em in and out, whatever... soon they'll leave the magwell in a hurry.

If you're interested, you can find good 17- and 15-round mags at www.cdnninvestments.com, but AVOID THEIR 13-ROUNDERS!!

Have fun with your new toy. ;)

Wes
 
I have no use for the magazine disconnect either, but I’d suggest that rather then take it out you polish the part of it that rubs on the front face of the magazine as well as the magazine itself. Then shorten the spring by about 25%. This will make a considerable improvement, but you’ll still have the safety. Then if you still don’t like it, take it out. But depending on where you live the legal liability could be considerable.
 
Fumegator.... Been and done that 5 of each!

Old Fuff..... I think I will follow your advise. That sounds like it will help out. The one downside is it makes racking the slide to dry fire a pain. Oh well, after the shinny new wears off this new fangled thing I be going back to the 1911 anyway.

Thanks Again!

Jim
 
>> The one downside is it makes racking the slide to dry fire a pain. <<

Been there, done that … Take an old or junk magazine and cut down that part of the follower that pushes the slide stop up. You can do the same with a .45 by removing the spring and follower.

>> Oh well, after the shinny new wears off this new fangled thing I be going back to the 1911 anyway. <<

Maybe ….. That Hi-Power can be addictive once you get used to it. Do find some decent 13-round magazines and pitch or retire the 10-rounders.
 
The first thing that goes is the mag safety on any HP of mine. Aside from my hate for the idea of the safety in the first place, and that you can't fire the gun without a magazine in place is my hate for plastic parts in general, especially internal ones. I was carrying it today in the sub-zero temps and the last thing I need is some plastic part getting brittle and breaking rendering the gun inoperable (until I remove it). The trigger will lighten up with use. It's been my experience that they tend to give themselves a trigger job after 500 rounds or so.

Honestly I never shoot light stuff through HP's. Typically NATO or +P/+P+. Never caused any failures or signs of wear in thousands of rounds fired. Regardless of what some people think about the HP being "delicate" I really think that these guns were designed to be used with military pressure ammo. They love 9mm NATO and any variety of +P. I used the factory strength recoil spring (17lbs.) and don't deviate from that. I know Mr. Stephen Camp uses the 18.5lbs. spring on some of his with good results, I like to stay with the original specs though.

I've used KRDs, Mec-Gars, numerous factory mags with different markings, mystery mags and a few others and haven't had a magazine that didn't work.

I take that back I had a mystery mag that worked perfect in an MKIII, but wouldn't fit in the magwell of my Belgian.
 
As of late, the Browning barrels have been very good! I sent my "Practical" to Cylinder & Slide and only had them......

install their wide trigger (alleviates the mag disconnect)

Novak sights

Wolff springs throughout

and Spegel grips

This GREATLY improved the overall shooting, handling and accuracy of this fine gun. For the meager cost, it really completes the gun, and I think is about all it needs.

Joe
 
Ditto Spegel grips.

www.pickagrip.com

Pride of workmanship shows in Spegel's autographing each pair on the inside.

Ditto removal of mag "safety." I also have the wide trigger, but it's not absolutely necessary, just nice.

KRD mags are pretty cheap, too. Hard to argue with 17 rounds.
 
As a cheap alternative to spegel grips, you can get Uncle Mike's rubber grips, which are made from Spegel moldings. I really like mine. They're about $20. www.unclemikes.com

Wes

Edit: I'm sounding like a broken record... didn't remember that I already plugged the UM grips on this thread. :D Sorry.
 
Originally posted by Old Fuff
This will make a considerable improvement, but you’ll still have the safety. Then if you still don’t like it, take it out. But depending on where you live the legal liability could be considerable.
Could you expand on this a bit? Can you point to any cases in which someone was sued or prosecuted because of a modified magazine safety?

Thanks! ;)
 
I don't think there's ever been one. I've never heard of one anywhere, including www.fnhipower.com

I DO think it could come to bear if it was a negligence case, like having a little kid get ahold of your gun, which had a deactivated safety.

Wes
 
Ever hear of such a case (re: negligence), Wes?

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I see many internet references to dire legal consequences of disabling safeties, carrying in condition 1, carrying hollowpoints, or FMJ, or handloads, or Black Talons, and even of frequenting gunboards. Yet I have never found any documentation of any of these things having any bearing on a legal case. Therefore I ask whenever I see it.

Thanks! ;)
 
Don't bother gwalchmai. They can't and they won't. I have asked the same questions for years. This is like the ultimate urban myth.
 
gwalchmai:

A number of states, California and Florida being examples, have passed laws which either will require pistols have magazine disconectors and/or hold a gun owner liable if his/her handgun is not secured and then found and used by another person to inflict injury or death.

While criminal prosecution is always possible where you can really get hit is in a civil suit, that some bottom-feeder brings after-the-fact, while representing someone claiming your deliberate negligence is either completely or partially responsible for what happened. In those circumstances a lawyer can and will have a field day at your expense.

If it is clear that you removed or deactivated a safety device where the circumstances revolve around an “accidental†shooting you can expect the bottom-feeder to make the most of it, and if the jury is composed of urban left-wing sorts the outcome is easy to predict. To a degree the risk varies depending on where you live – a point that I made.

In years past, during the middle 60’s through the early 80’s I often carried a Hi-Power in which the magazine disconector had been removed, and I did so with no qualms. Today I would more likely modify it as I described rather then remove it. Or, more likely I wouldn’t carry the Browning at all, although I still like it very much.

As I said, if the modifications didn’t prove to be satisfactory you still have the option of removing the device. But we live in a far different country then the one I experienced during the 1950’s through the 1980’s.
 
"is my hate for plastic parts in general, especially internal ones."

What plastic parts? I'd look at my mag disconnect, but I don't know where it is. I don't remember seeing any plastic parts.

About removing the mag disconnect..."OMG, they stole my gun and took the what out? Did you find the pieces so I can put them back?"

John
 
All the mag disconnects I've seen are plastic. Maybe they weren't plastic on the really old ones. The oldest HP I've removed one from is an early 80's model. I thought they were all plastic though, going back to the beginning. (1930's)
 
Thanks for the review, bigjim - -

Good reading.

Old Fuff - - I've been removing mag disconnects from High Powers for some years now - - Certainly since before some THR members were born. :p The last three came out within hours after purchase.

Several years ago, when I went to Texas DPS for the CHL instructor school, I carried my old Inglis P35. They had specified we would use factory ammo on their range, and I didn't want to shoot any of my .45 ball ammo stash. The 9mm stuff was cheap, though.

Once I got to the academy in Austin, though, the staff announced there would be equipment checks on the range. Said they would disapprove "any modification that reduced the safety functions of any handgun." Ouch! I began picturing running to the car for my Commander, and then a flying trip down Lamar St to McBride's for some factory .45 ammo.

Decided to take a chance and submitted my P35 and old M&P .38 for inspection. Handled both fairly briskly but VERY safely, to demonstrate my familiarity, and set them on the bench for the Range Officer's scrutinty. A firearms enthusiast himself, he INSTANTLY detected the modification and commented on it. We chatted for a minute and I pointed out that the thumb safety and "half cock" worked perfectly, and so forth. He grinned ans said he'd let it pass, but some ROs would not, and I shouldn't try it in the future. Phew! I've taken a Glock 19 to the re-qualifications since.

This is the one and only time I feared that there would be a problem with the disconnector being absent. ;)

Best,
Johnny
 
Ever hear of such a case (re: negligence), Wes?

Nope, not a one.

Like you, I tend to really question the stories I hear about the "dangers" of taking out the mag disconnect. I personally think that if one were forced to use their gun justifiably, it shouldn't matter anyway.

The negligence is just something that seems logical to me. If someone's nosy kid was poking around in your bedroom and found your "modified" Browning, started playing with it and shot himself, then in our litigous country, his parents would probably sue (regardless of the fact that their kid did something stupid). Having a lawyer bring up the "deactivated safety" issue in court in such a case, in my mind, could look pretty bad.

It's purely my opinion, there is no case to back it up.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I see many internet references to dire legal consequences of disabling safeties, carrying in condition 1, carrying hollowpoints, or FMJ, or handloads, or Black Talons, and even of frequenting gunboards. Yet I have never found any documentation of any of these things having any bearing on a legal case. Therefore I ask whenever I see it.

No, don't worry, I'm not taking it as argumentative. It's good of you to investigate. I have heard all of the same arguments as you have, and I don't believe any of them either. The only one that takes a slight foothold in my mind is the negligence case.

This is like the ultimate urban myth.

Absolutely, and it is perpetuated by the so-called "experts." But as I said, if I have to shoot someone, it's either justified or it's not, whether the weapon is modified or not.

Just thought I'd clear that up: I'm not claiming to have any facts, just my own little opinion. :)

Wes
 
Yes, I understand your concern about negligence. However, I think if you leave a loaded gun where a child can get to it you are negligent. Whether it has a mag safety is immaterial. i.e., given two situations in which two toddlers happened upon two guns I doubt the condition of the mag safety on one would determine whether there was a lawsuit. ;)

And I completely agree with your assessment of justifiable shootings.
 
I have no objection to anyone removing the magazine disconector from any automatic pistol - Browning or otherwise. However in our present politically correct times I hope gun owners do consider the risks. If you find yourself in court the lawyer fees run about $200.00 per hour and up for one that's experienced in this sort of case. Cleary the reaction that Johnny G. got on a shooting range in Texas was far more friendly then what might happen with the authorities in New York or California.

I understand where the thinking is coming from concerning this gadget, but at the same time I'm smart enough to know that in the unlikely event I do have to defend myself I'll be in enough trouble as it is without looking to take on more.

As for others, they can do as they see fit. This is after all, a free country.
 
Absolutely, and it is perpetuated by the so-called "experts." But as I said, if I have to shoot someone, it's either justified or it's not, whether the weapon is modified or not.

In a rational world you would be correct. If the modification didn't affect the alleged injury, it shouldn't matter. If the target was a legitimate deadly force threat, whether or not you have removed the magazine safety shouldn't matter, since you presumably were justified in using deadly force to defend.

However, legal costs may be higher, since it gives the prosecutor and/or threat's lawyer more to argue about, and time (your lawyer's) is money. Further, the world is not predictably rational...
 
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