Recoil buffers?

[hawkass13]

Ok so i went to test some reloads in my Rock Island last night. I was four rounds into the second five round batch when i had a jam. I cleared the pistol and made notes in my reloading log. Then i continued with my third test batch. No problems loading up, release the slide and nothing.
I got to looking and the slide had not gone forward completely. So i unload the gun and start over. Only to have the same thing happen.
Two days ago i was doing a complete disassembly and clean-up on this pistol. When I put her all back together I installed one of those blue Wilson recoil buffer. My question is could this recoil buffer possibly be my problem or does it sound like something different to those of you with more experience.
As always thank you in advance.
-hawk

 

[nalioth]

Recoil buffers are designed to separate fools from their money.

If added to "fix" a problem, it's because the owner/gunsmith doesn't know what the real problem is.

If added to "supercharge" a firearm, it can cause some serious issues down the road (in some firearms, adding a recoil buffer has caused frames to crack).



I don't want to hear "but the manufacturers didn't know about these" or any of that crapola, as leather recoil buffers have been used since the late 30's in some factory firearms.

 

[hawkass13]

That is good to know nalioth. I had read that they would relieve some of the stress from recoil. So naturally I ran out an bought some. I wasn't really trying to fix a problem with it and i didn't want to supercharge my pistol. I like it just fine the way it is. I just thought i was helping to ease the wear and tear.

 

[hawkass13]

anyone else have any input?

 

[nalioth]

I used "supercharge", but should have said "supercharge/apply preventive maintenance".

When you introduce anything foreign into a controlled system, you're gonna have problems.



There are a few unfortunate folks who wanted to "relieve some stress" in their H&K rifles, only to end up with cracked receivers after installing one of these buffers.

So much for "preventive maintenance". . .

 

[MattTheHat]

I don't know of any of the "big time" 1911 pistol smiths who recommend buffers. Ditto for full length guide rods.


-Matt

 

[rcmodel]

In the 1911, which was never designed for them, they reduce slide travel 1/8", and stop the slide stop from disengaging normally when you slingshot the slide to load a new magazine.

1/8" less slide travel translates to less room for error, which effects reliability.

rc

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

My first 1911 had a dandy of a recoil buffer. I still have it somewhere. Basically it was spring loaded (heavy spring) that captured the recoil spring (can't for the life of me remember what the actual name of the part is), but it worked like a champ for decades. The gun was used when I bought it and it had been accurized by someone that knew his stuff. To this day I have not shot any handgun that would beat it in accuracy and reliability.

One day when I find the buffer assembly I'm going to install it in my custom 1911 and ditch the full length recoil guide.

 

[Jim K]

The 1911 and similar pistols were designed so that when the slide recoiled, it hit the frame, transferring some of its energy to the frame, then the frame returned some of that energy to help the slide complete its cycle. Which is a complicated way of saying that the slide was intended to bounce off the frame.* A recoil buffer absorbs the energy without returning any of it, so the slide does not have enough energy to return to battery.

Makers of buffers usually talk about preventing damage to the frame, keeping the slide from hitting the frame, etc. What they don't know, or don't tell the customer is that the slide is supposed to hit the frame.

*The slide actually doesn't hit the frame directly; it hits the flange at the rear of the recoil spring guide, which is against the frame, but the effect is the same.

Jim

 

[1911Tuner]

Okay. Here's my take on shock buffers in the 1911 pistol. I'm speaking of the little neoprene jobs that appeared around the early 80s.

First...It was one of the oldest marketing ploys in the world. Convince the buyer that he needs it, and then sell it to him. "Snake Oil" might apply.

Do they do any good?

Sure. A little. Steel-to-steel impact has an inevitible result if allowed to continue for long enough.

Are they needed in a 1911 pistol?

Depends on the application. Under normal use? No. In a gun that sees 40-50 thousand rounds a year? Yes. Those can benefit from shock buffs.

Most 5-inch guns will run just fine with a buff. Some won't. That gap gets narrower with Commander-length guns. Officers Model class...they probably won't.

If your gun will run with shock buff, use it if it makes you feel better...on the range. I don't advise using one in a carry gun while it's on the job.

 

[hawkass13]

Thanks guys for all the good input. I have since removed the buffer from my Rock Island but i have not had a chance to test it.

 

[frankge]

on topic different application. I installed one in my AK, is it a waste? Sure clatters alot less but recoil is about the same. Its a hard buffer vs. the soft available.

 

[rcmodel]

I don't think they actually hurt anything in an AK, and may actually do some good.

The down side is introducing a plastic part into the AK action that can break & jam the action at an inopportune moment.

As long as you keep tabs on the amount of wear & beating it is getting, it should be O.K.

rc

 

[nalioth]

on topic different application. I installed one in my AK, is it a waste? Sure clatters alot less but recoil is about the same. Its a hard buffer vs. the soft available.

If adding the buffer reduced the felt recoil, you've installed a "band-aid" for a weak recoil spring. The recoil spring is designed to stop the bolt carrier just shy of touching the rear block.

The buffer stops the bolt carrier travel before it's designed stop point, removing some oomph from the return stroke. This can lead to FTFs and loose rivets.

Do the right thing, and replace the recoil spring.

 

[cavman]

I got to looking and the slide had not gone forward completely.

I found on one of my 1911s that it was not going into battery every once in a blue moon. Shooting Bullseye, however, that is too many moons!

I found, finally, that the barrel shroud was the slightest too big to fit into the frame (just rear of the opening for the cartridge ejection port). It had the slightest of rubs against that frame surface.

I took some of my finest paper ~400-600 I think, and made a few strokes on the shroud's outer edge until it fit.

I have never had it have problems since.

 

[Old Shooter]

Every now and then I would install a shock buff in one of my 1911s, run a couple of mags thru them and then remember why I don't care for them.

In my experience I can take a perfectly functional 45 and make it into a finicky feeder while perfecting my tap-rack-bang skills simply by installing one of those things.

I've had this experience with multiple guns. Remove the shock buff and it returns to 100% reliable.

Mayby it's just me but I won't touch one of them now.