Recoil effect on measured accuracy?

[Col. Plink]

Hey y'all,
Just wondering whether allowing a rifle to recoil somewhat freely (as opposed to holding it firmly) can affect accuracy. I've heard it put both ways, perhaps that only on really long-distance shots does it make much difference. Is this true?

Also, just to clarify for my own thought process, shooting MOA at 100 yds means a group with a maximum diameter of 2", correct? My thinking is that MOA at 100yds is 1", hence a 1" radius in any direction, hence a 2" diameter circle no?

Thanks all!

 

[Zak Smith]

To the second paragraph-- no.

 

[Col. Plink]

Very enlightening, thank you. :sarcasm:

 

[Zak Smith]

Here you go
What does MOA mean?? - THR

As for the first question, the rifle has to recoil the same way every time. Some benchrest style shooters use a free recoil method, but they are shooting off sophisticated front and rear rests and often have specially-designed stocks to mate up repeatably with these rests. Generally the lighter the rifle, the more important it is to hold it solidly.

perhaps that only on really long-distance shots does it make much difference. Is this true?

Long-range shooting is more complicated because of trajectory and environmental effects. The mechanical accuracy of the shooter/rifle combination can be more easily studied by itself at close range (100-200 yards). A 1/2 MOA degradation of accuracy would be apparent at close or long range.

-z

 

[ricebasher302]

Picture a circle. It is comprised of 360 degrees. Each degree is a little wedge in the "pie" if you will. A minute it 1/60th of a degree. So cut that little wedge into 60 little, tiny wedges. Isolate one of those little, tiny wedges and extend its lines out 300 feet (100 yards). At that distance the lines will be 1.047 inches apart. We round that to 1 inch for simplicity's sake. A 1 MOA rifle will shoot a group measuring no larger than 1.047 inches at 100 yards as measured by the largest distance between the centers of any two bullet holes.

As for the recoil question, I'd like to know more on that myself.

 

[Skylerbone]

Rather than confuse you with the math, for easy reference use 1" @ 100 yds. If you are shooting a 30 caliber (.308 bullet diameter) measure the total spread of your group, say it's 1.308" You may then subtract the bullets diameter (.308") and you have a 1" group @ 100 yds. or approx. 1 MOA. Technically you measure center to center of your hits but it's generally easier to find the outter edge than the center of the holes. Double the size for every doubling of distance (as in a cone) so that a 2" group at 200 yds. is still 1 MOA.

As for recoil, any gap between your shoulder and the rifle (depending on caliber) may result in bruising or worse. It will also give you less control over the rifle as you depress your trigger. Ideally I would think no movement would be ideal, straight back good and anything else bad. Realizing that muzzles rise, you're better off trying to keep everything consistent rather than trying to fight it.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Skylerbone]

One other thing, rather than meeting answers with sarcasm, try rephrasing your question to be more specific or asking for clarification. More times than I'd like to admit my attitude or answers have been wrong and were corrected by a moderator for the benefit of all involved. I would prefer to be wrong or humbled than spread information that is incorrect. The advice given by experts is a real benefit and you're getting their time for free. Try that with a gun smith or shooting pro.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Just wondering whether allowing a rifle to recoil somewhat freely (as opposed to holding it firmly) can affect accuracy. I've heard it put both ways, perhaps that only on really long-distance shots does it make much difference. Is this true?

Any inconsistent hold will allow the bullet to exit the muzzle slightly different each time it's fired. The bullet will spend some time in the muzzle while the gun begins it's recoil. It's a small amount of time, but it does affect the flight of the bullet, sending it a little from your point of aim when you pulled the trigger.


I guess it depends what your goal is. If you're shooting at a deer 100 yards away, it probably won't matter.


If you're shooting for groups on paper, say to adjust the zero on a scope, it will matter. You'll find that the groups will wander around a bit. The adjustment you make seems to have no effect, too much effect, or the opposite effect based on the adjustment you made. That can get frustrating, and cause you to doubt your equipment and load.


If you're shooting competitively, it matters very much.

 

[AK103K]

Recoil effect on measured accuracy?

This is all really very simple. Its all based on the level of "eye squint", "cringe" and the poundage of "teeth gritting" with each successive shot in the group.

 

[Walkalong]

Some benchrest style shooters use a free recoil method, but they are shooting off sophisticated front and rear rests and often have specially-designed stocks to mate up repeatably with these rests. Generally the lighter the rifle, the more important it is to hold it solidly.

Yep. To shoot free recoil the rifle must be supported very well and track exactly the same each time. I know of no other type of shooting besides Benchrest that shoots free recoil.

The rifle must do the same thing in recoil each time. That is where the shooters talent and much practice shine.

 

[BrocLuno]

Also, if it's a big caliber - free recoil will HAMMER your shoulder

 

[d2wing]

The idea is to keep the recoil consistent. I've heard it said that a bullet will leave the barrel before the rifle moves. But that is not true. According to physics the amount of force on the bullet and the rifle is the same but in opposite directions. The rifle, depending on it's weight compared to the bullet, will accelerate backwards. The rifle will rotate around where it is attached and it's center of mass. Free recoil is an attempt to keep rotation and the effects of human movement to a minumum. Not to mention rotational torgue. For a normal rifle it's better to just be consistent on hold. To use free recoil you have to minimize other effects including trigger pull. An overlooked advantage or the AR15 is that rifle rotation is reduced by the gas design and the controlled bolt movement absorbing recoil. I think that is why I had problems with a heavier recoil spring awhile back. To much force was transmitted to the rifle too fast. Just another 2 cents.

 

[Col. Plink]

Very much appreciated 'Wing, thanks! I had a feeling that there could be no way the rifle wouldn't start recoiling until after the bullet was gone, unless your gun range is in Bizarroworld... I'll see if baging under the hinge point on my H&R helps, as everything I read here fits in with what I was seeing in terms of consistent groups when doing consistent things. I also had a problem of the hammer spur nicking the scope's adjustable magnification ring on some settings but not others. Busted out my old model train file set and did some reduction; even looks kinda cool...